Definitive List of Raynor Courses

[Carl Nichols]

Could anyone point me to the definitive list (or something close) of the courses in which Raynor had an important role in the design and/or construction?  Not trying to get into a debate about whether a specific course should be included--just trying to see a reasonably accurate list of courses where he played an important role, even if others (e.g., MacDonald) had as or more important roles.  Thanks in advance.

[Howard Riefs]

Paging George Bahto...

[Keith Doleshel]

Carl,
This is the best list that I could find.  It's from worldgolf.com.  I'm sure there may be a few that this list is missing, I am not one to debate influence or anything either.

Blind Brook Club - Private in Purchase, NY
Blue Mound Golf & Country Club - Private in Wauwatosa, WI
Brookville Country Club - Private in Glen Head, NY
Camargo Club - Private in Cincinnati, OH
Country Club of Charleston - Private in Charleston, SC
Country Club of Fairfield - Private in Fairfield, CT
Creek Club, The - Private in Locust Valley, PA
Dunes at Monterey Peninsula Country Club - Private in Pebble Beach, CA
Eighteen Hole at Sleepy Hollow Country Club - Private in Scarborough, NY
Elkridge Club - Private in Baltimore, MD
Everglades Golf Course - Private in Palm Beach, FL
Fox Chapel Golf Club - Private in Pittsburgh, PA
Greenbrier - Greenbrier Course in White Sulphur Springs, WV
Greenbrier - Old White TPC Course in White Sulphur Springs, VW
Greenwich Country Club - Private in Greenwich, CT
Lookout Mountain Golf Club - Private in Lookout Mountain, GA
Metairie Country Club - Private in Metairie, LA
Mid Ocean Club in Bermuda
Mid-Pacific Country Club in Kailua, HI
Midland Hills Country Club - Private in Saint Paul, MN
Morris County Golf Club - Private in Morristown, NJ
Mountain Lake - Private in Lake Wales, FL
Nine Hole at Sleepy Hollow Country Club - Private in Scarborough, NY
Roselle Golf Club - Private in Roselle, NJ
Shoreacres - Private in Lake Bluff, IL
Somerset Country Club - Private in Mendota Heights, PA
Southampton Golf Club - Private in Southampton, NY
Thousand Islands Country Club - The Lake Course in Wellesley Island, NY
Thousand Islands Country Club - The Old Course in Wellesley Island, NY
Waialae Country Club in Honolulu, HI
Wanumetonomy Golf & Country Club - Private in Middletown, RI
Westhampton Country Club - Private in Westhampton Beach, NY
Yeamans Hall Country Club - Private in Hanahan, SC

[Tom_Doak]

There are a ton of courses missing from the list above; Raynor probably built between 100 and 150 courses total.

Macdonald only did 12, and Raynor had a had in all but his first efforts at Chicago Golf Club [what is now the Downers Grove muni] and his Macdonald's original layout in Wheaton, though Raynor revised that layout thoroughly with C.B.'s blessing in 1926.

The Macdonald list:

Chicago Golf Club [v.1 and v.2]
National Golf Links of America
Piping Rock Club
The Creek Club
Deepdale Club [original - now part of Lake Success GC]
The Links Golf Club, NY [NLE]
Sleepy Hollow Country Club
Yale University GC
Mid Ocean, Bermuda
The Greenbrier (Old White), WV
Gibson Island, MD
St. Louis Country Club
Sleepy Hollow C.C.

[Sven Nilsen]

Add these to the list

Augusta CC (GA)
Babson Park Golf & Yacht Club (FL) - NLE
Bellport GC (NY)
Berwind Porto (PR) - NLE
Chicago GC (IL) - as noted by TD
Cow Neck CC (NY) - original Southampton plan - never built
Crawford County Club (NY) - redesign
Cypress Point Club (CA) - routing
Dedham Country & Polo Club (MA)
Deepdale G&CC (NY)
Essex County CC (East) (NJ)
Essex Fells CC (NJ)
Fishers Island Club (NY)
Gardiner's Bay CC (NY)
Gibson Island GC (MD)
Grand Hotel GC (NY)
Green Park - Norwood GC (NC)
Greenbrier (Lakeside) (WV) - redesign
Hotchkiss School GC (CT)
Kahn Estate (NY)
Knapp Course (NY) - 3 hole course
Knollwood CC (NY)
Lido Club (NY)
Links Club (NY)
Maidstone GC (NY)
Minnesota Valley CC (MN)
Moore Course (NY) - 3 hole course
Nassau CC (NY) - Hole 5 - Eden
North Palm Beach CC (for Paris Singer) (FL)
North Shore CC (NY)
Oakland GC (NY)
Ocean Links (NY)
Olympic Club (Lake) (CA) - hired, drew plans, never built
Piping Rock Club (NY)
Riddles Bay G&CC (Ber)
Rock Spring CC (NJ)
Rumson CC (NJ)
Santa Barbara GC (CA) - plans submitted
Sequoyah CC of Oakland - plans submitted
Shinnecock Hills GC (NY)
St. Louis CC (MO)
Statesville CC (NC)
Stauffer Estate (LA)
Westchester Hills GC (NY) - Raynor drew plans, unknown if he built the course or if his plans were used.
Whitney Estate (NY)
Women's National G&CC (NY) - advisor to Hollins, course built by D. Emmet
Yale University GC (CT)

Question as to why Bahto doesn't list Raynor for NGLA?

[Alex Lagowitz]

in the back of Bahtos book, their is a long list of courses attributed to either macdonald, raynor and or banks

[Josh Tarble]

Augusta CC was Raynor?

[Bill Brightly]

Sven,

Hackensack was Banks, not Raynor. Did you get your list from Planet golf?

[Sven Nilsen]

Bill: 

Bahto has Raynor and Banks.

Sven

[Sven Nilsen]

Augusta CC was Raynor?

At one point there were two courses, one by Raynor (a revision of an Ogilvie layout) and one by Ross.  The course that remains is the Ross.

[BHoover]

Is Camargo the only example of Raynor in Ohio? Did he design, or work on, any other courses in Ohio (perhaps something NLE)?

[Josh Tarble]

Augusta CC was Raynor?

At one point there were two courses, one by Raynor (a revision of an Ogilvie layout) and one by Ross.  The course that remains is the Ross.

Thanks Sven...I was quite confused on that one.

[Bill Brightly]

Bill: 

Bahto has Raynor and Banks.

Sven

Well, he better fix it   Raynor was dead six months before we acquired the land... It is an old myth perpetuated by a famous local sportswriter, Red Smith. I found our old board minutes, and know for a fact that we interviewed and hired Banks, not Raynor.

[Greg Holland]

Speaking of Raynor - George Bahto, any update on the status of the next book (of what I believe was to be a 3 volume set) following the terrific Evangelist of Golf?

[Sven Nilsen]

Bill:

I've deleted it from the list in my post above.

Unfortunately, Hackensack isn't covered in any great detail in the Evangelist of Golf, although George does note the dates 1925-1927.  To satisfy my own curiosity, what dates did you come up with in your research for the land purchase/interview (I'm guessing mid-1926)?  Not trying to play devil's advocate.

I do know that there are a few courses that were designed and/or started by Raynor that were completed by Banks after his death.  Not saying that Hackensack was one of those, but perhaps the existence of that model lent some credence to the idea that Raynor was involved there at all.

Second question, with respect to the original course, did Bendelow do the first nine, the second nine, or both?

Sven

[Sven Nilsen]

Augusta CC was Raynor?

At one point there were two courses, one by Raynor (a revision of an Ogilvie layout) and one by Ross.  The course that remains is the Ross.

Thanks Sven...I was quite confused on that one.

Josh:

I should probably clarify that both of the courses (Hill and Lake) were laid out by Ogilvie in 1902.  Ross' work on the Hill Course (in 1927) was also a renovation.  The Travis Society has record of his creation of a plan for a new green on the 6th hole of the Lake Course a couple of years prior to Raynor's work in 1926.  At the time both courses were owned by the Bon-Air Vanderbilt Hotel, a winter retreat reached from the Northeast by train. 

Sven

[Nigel Islam]

Augusta CC was Raynor?

At one point there were two courses, one by Raynor (a revision of an Ogilvie layout) and one by Ross.  The course that remains is the Ross.

This is the way I understand it as well, plus I believe Raynor was also involved in converting the greens of the current course to Bermuda. Its on the ACC website, but I cant access it from my Ipad.

[Phil McDade]

Is Camargo the only example of Raynor in Ohio? Did he design, or work on, any other courses in Ohio (perhaps something NLE)?

Brian:

Cornish and Whitten list Camargo as Raynor's only Ohio course.

[Morgan Clawson]

Somerset Country Club in Mendota Heights, MN (Suburb of St Paul) is a Raynor too.

[Nigel Islam]

Is Cold Springs Country Club in NY the old Otto Kahn Estate course Raynor is credited with? The date of establishment for CSCC is after Raynor's death.

[Sven Nilsen]

Is Cold Springs Country Club in NY the old Otto Kahn Estate course Raynor is credited with? The date of establishment for CSCC is after Raynor's death.

Nigel:

I think that is correct.

I believe it was also known as Oheka GC (using the letters from Otto H. Kahn).

Sven

[Nigel Islam]

George Bahto has not finished his book on Raynor as of yet has he?

[Keith OHalloran]

I assume that the Maidstone GC that Sven listed is The Maidstone Club in Easthampton? I had not heard of Raynor doing anything there before. Anyone know what he did?

[Nigel Islam]

Sven, I think the Deepdale course is NLE , as they had to relocate the club, and had Dick Wilson design the new one because of a highway or something. I know you keep very good records, just something I noticed on your list.

[Sven Nilsen]

A couple of follow up questions/thoughts for the group:

1.  For Dedham, the Ross Society lists his work as a new course replacing the original 1897 Findlay layout.  Was the Raynor course a new design (and if so was it on the same land or a new plot) or a renovation of the Ross course?

2.  Did Raynor work on the University of Minnesota GC (aka Les Bolstad)?

3.  For Green Park - Norwood (aka Blowing Rock CC), the Ross Society has him working there a few years prior to Raynor.  Were these different courses, or did they bring Raynor in shortly after Ross added 9 new holes, which seems a little odd?

4.  I've seen listings for Bayside CC in Rhode Island attributed to Raynor, does anyone have any additional information on this course?

5.  There have been several theories bantered about around here regarding the Mac/Raynor connections to the upper crust of NY Society.  The number of private/estate courses on his resume (including Ocean Links in RI, North Palm Beach and a few others) seems to suggest that he was the go to guy for this type of project.

Keith:

Raynor and Vaughn expanded Maidstone in 1916 and Raynor modified the course in 1922.  I believe it took on its current form when Willie and John Park revised 11 holes in 1925.  I'm curious as to why the club saw the need to redo the course in 1925, only 9 years after Raynor's initial work.

Nigel:

Deepdale is NLE (as are many of the courses noted).  The easiest way to track it in this thread is that the World golf list seems to be comprised of courses that still exist).  

Sven