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Howard Riefs

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Re: Caddie Experience at Streamsong
« Reply #225 on: February 15, 2013, 10:55:20 AM »
It appears that a good number of people have visited Streamsong in the last few weeks.  Any additional recommendations for specific caddies? 

Also, given the discussion about some of the "bizarre greens" on Streamsong Blue (example below), I'm interested in perspective on the following scenario: 
If you play both Red and Blue one day and decide to take a caddie for one of the two rounds, should it be on Blue?  This is regardless of the order of play. (Refrain from the "you should take caddies for both rounds" commentary.) 



I really can't really understand the sometimes bizarre greens. As you know, I love quirk as much as anyone, but I don't find it "fun" when I don't have a flipping clue what putts are going to do... or, when a putt goes in the exact opposite direction from what my eyes and brain tell me it might... hole, after hole, after hole. Fool me once, shame on me. Fool me four times, five times, six times... shame on you. I know these type greens are not critical to a Doak course because I didn't experience this at Barnbougle, Cape Kidnappers or Ballyneal. Maybe it was the competitive nature of this project (with C&C just over the dune) that pushed the creative envelope.
"Golf combines two favorite American pastimes: Taking long walks and hitting things with a stick."  ~P.J. O'Rourke

Rick Shefchik

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Caddie Experience at Streamsong
« Reply #226 on: February 15, 2013, 11:53:12 AM »
Howard, my caddie and I were more in sync on the Blue, but I think that's because the severity of some of the slopes made the break more obvious. I don't have a name for you, but I would suggest a caddie for the Red who's been out on the course at least two dozen times, if possible.
"Golf is 20 percent mechanics and technique. The other 80 percent is philosophy, humor, tragedy, romance, melodrama, companionship, camaraderie, cussedness and conversation." - Grantland Rice

Chuck Glowacki

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Re: Caddie Experience at Streamsong
« Reply #227 on: February 15, 2013, 12:29:56 PM »
Kevin or Ryne would be good choices

Bill McKinley

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Re: Caddie Experience at Streamsong
« Reply #228 on: February 15, 2013, 01:11:41 PM »
I had Hibbie on the Red, I think his name was Brandon Hibbson but everyone calls him Hibbie. Very good caddie and I would recommend him to anyone.  He loops at Bandon but he was recruited by the Streamsong caddiemaster, who came from Bandon.  So I think he'll continue to go back to Bandon in the summer but he definitely prefers the winter weather at Streamsong.

At the Blue I had Chris Birdseye.  Chris caddied for me at Muirfield Village this past fall so it was pretty funny running into him at Streamsong.  Chris is a pro.  He's done some time on the LPGA Tour and I believe the Web.com but he can caddie for a 25 handicapper as well as the scratch player.

So, I would recommend both guys that caddied for me to anyone who goes to Streamsong.  In fact, I think the caddie prorgram was the most well run area of the operation.  I think they did well in that regard. 
2016 Highlights:  Streamsong Blue (3/17); Streamsong Red (3/17); Charles River Club (5/16); The Country Club - Brookline (5/17); Myopia Hunt Club (5/17); Fishers Island Club (5/18); Aronomink GC (10/16); Pine Valley GC (10/17); Somerset Hills CC (10/18)

Cliff Hamm

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Re: Caddie Experience at Streamsong
« Reply #229 on: February 16, 2013, 10:18:08 AM »
Jack is highly recommended.  Not one misread putt.  Enjoyed talking with him about GA.  He is a frequent reader of this board.  Just excellent.

BTW I asked him if they had enough caddies and he said way too many.  Lucky to get out a few times a week.  The day I had him he had arrived at 5:30 for a 10:30 loop.  Sounds like hotdogs aren't the only thing SS needs to work on.  They clearly need a system where caddies are notified of a loop the day before.

Rick Shefchik

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Caddie Experience at Streamsong
« Reply #230 on: February 16, 2013, 10:24:08 AM »
Cliff, I agree. I poked my noes in when my caddie went into the caddie waiting room (across the beezeway from the cart storage garage, under the clubhouse), expecting to see a handful of expectant loopers. The room was full (seemed like about 20), all the chairs were occupied and I'd have to say the guys didn't look particularly happy. We saw maybe a half-dozen groups on the course that day, averaging one caddie per group.

Just a quick impression, but it reminded me of the days I'd drop my son off at the White Bear Yacht Club to caddie, knowing his chances of catching a loop were about 20 percent.
"Golf is 20 percent mechanics and technique. The other 80 percent is philosophy, humor, tragedy, romance, melodrama, companionship, camaraderie, cussedness and conversation." - Grantland Rice

Howard Riefs

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Caddie Experience at Streamsong
« Reply #231 on: February 25, 2013, 05:50:32 PM »
Thanks for the additional caddie recommendations.

Here's the current list of names provided on this thread:

Doug Wilbur (recruited from Bandon; caddied on Tour)
Brandon Hibbson (recruited from Bandon)
Chris Birdseye (previously at Murfield Village; caddied on LPGA Tour)
Jack
Kevin
Ryne
Jay Z
Kirk
Will
"Golf combines two favorite American pastimes: Taking long walks and hitting things with a stick."  ~P.J. O'Rourke

Howard Riefs

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Caddie Experience at Streamsong
« Reply #232 on: March 13, 2013, 12:44:24 PM »
Bump for those who recently visited Streamsong...

I'd highly recommend J.Z., who I had for two rounds. Personable, can read the greens and your game, confidence-builder and sometimes risk-taker. Case in point: "How do you like driver off the deck," he asked me on Red #12. Thankfully, I hit it flush and it rolled out. The subsequent approach is another story.

I'm just disappointed that I had a different caddie the preceding two rounds. Sometimes you just have to tell the caddie master that it's not working out for you.

"Golf combines two favorite American pastimes: Taking long walks and hitting things with a stick."  ~P.J. O'Rourke

Richard Choi

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Caddie Experience at Streamsong
« Reply #233 on: March 13, 2013, 01:02:30 PM »
I walked and carried all five rounds. Good thing too, as vast majority of the caddies in my group left much to be desired (and there was at least one very boorish caddie story during a dinner). If I do get back to Streamsong, I will stick to walk and carry.

P.S. It just drives me nuts when caddies show the putting line by touching the aiming point. I am not a big stickler for rules, but C'MON! And it wasn't just one caddie doing it.
« Last Edit: March 13, 2013, 01:04:08 PM by Richard Choi »

Bill_McBride

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Re: Caddie Experience at Streamsong
« Reply #234 on: March 13, 2013, 02:54:59 PM »
Jack is highly recommended.  Not one misread putt.  Enjoyed talking with him about GA.  He is a frequent reader of this board.  Just excellent.

BTW I asked him if they had enough caddies and he said way too many.  Lucky to get out a few times a week.  The day I had him he had arrived at 5:30 for a 10:30 loop.  Sounds like hotdogs aren't the only thing SS needs to work on.  They clearly need a system where caddies are notified of a loop the day before.

I had Jack for one round, agreed he's a nice guy.  He really did not do a good job reading the greens, and was appreciative after the round when I told him I understood that 1) the caddies are still learning the reads, and 2) that is one complicated set of 36 greens!

One of the other caddies, who shall be nameless, was a nonstop Chatty Cathy, even while players other than his were swinging.


Michael Wharton-Palmer

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Caddie Experience at Streamsong
« Reply #235 on: March 13, 2013, 02:58:47 PM »
Jerry Kluger's caddie was marvelous.
Spends the summers at National Golf Links, and was very impressive.
The others I saw would have driven me mad, too much talking for my liking, but Howard's caddie was a really nice kid and did a good job.

What is that old saying..show up..keep up..and shut up...the keys to a good caddie ;)

Howard Riefs

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Caddie Experience at Streamsong
« Reply #236 on: March 13, 2013, 03:19:28 PM »
Jerry Kluger's caddie was marvelous.
Spends the summers at National Golf Links, and was very impressive.

.... and is GCA's new contact for access at NGLA.

Forget about making connections with members. The new route: Caddies!
"Golf combines two favorite American pastimes: Taking long walks and hitting things with a stick."  ~P.J. O'Rourke

Michael Wharton-Palmer

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Caddie Experience at Streamsong
« Reply #237 on: March 13, 2013, 03:21:26 PM »
 ;D

V. Kmetz

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Caddie Experience at Streamsong
« Reply #238 on: March 13, 2013, 04:18:06 PM »
I've gone round the earth once already with the bags, and am on my second trip heading west, just approaching the shores of Japan...I've caddied for a President, a King, superb players, former champions, international culture celebrities from sport, entertainment...

...but 95% of my rounds have been spent in service to Mr (and Mrs.) Average Private Club Golfer and that public is so vast in its evaluation of a caddie, what they desire a caddie for, that there can be no one dogma about their worth or value to the game.

Such broad things can be said about individual caddies and individual experiences, but they can fizzle or be refuted by the very next experience.

I don't know everyone on this list or how the recreate in this sport; I can say this from what I've read here (and in past threads that touch on this issue)....

The more frequently one has used a caddie and been part of a club/course culture where caddies are used, part of the woodwork, the more value and the more ardent defense they give for their value in principle...

WHILE

The more sporadic or infrequent the exposure to caddie usage (whether by chance or design), the more complaint and aversion that player has to the concept.  The less they use them and the more they practice avoidance of them (on an economic and/or disdain for any guide - "basis") the more entrenched they become in that opinion.


Most talk of "equating" caddying with some type of labor market, in either "how hard it is" or "hourly rates," "independent contractors vs employees" is spoken by people who don't have much experience in the club millieu (here in the premium golfing districts of America) because the range and the ad-hoc, daily changing nature of the beast doesn't comport with any general scale.

I've received several hundred dollars for sitting in a cart with a person and pouring them drinks for three and a half hours and I've received $30 for six hours of rain-soaked, back out back in rain delayed rounds.  I've received a $150 for caddying nine-holes in the snow, holding four clubs and sharing brandy and I've received $60 for shepherding a player to US Open Local qualification.  I've received $200 for a player who had to withdraw with injury on the very first hole of a tournament and I've received $0 for driving two hours to a course only to find my group didn't show.  In those case I've had to lay out $30 in gas.  We need not talk about rain, course closures, renovations etc.

Sometimes it's as hard as the Roman salt mines and somedays its a walk in the park.

cheers

vk










"The tee shot must first be hit straight and long between a vast bunker on the left which whispers 'slice' in the player's ear, and a wilderness on the right which induces a hurried hook." -

Michael Wharton-Palmer

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Caddie Experience at Streamsong
« Reply #239 on: March 13, 2013, 04:26:17 PM »
Marvelous post Mr VK..how correct you are, but once you have had that "good" caddie experience it tends to spoil you forever!!
Garden City has a superb caddie programme, never had a less than great experience there at all, one hopes that the programme atStreamsong can develop into anything like that one.

Jud_T

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Caddie Experience at Streamsong
« Reply #240 on: March 13, 2013, 04:39:49 PM »
A great caddie adds immeasurably to the round, a horrible one detracts equally...
Golf is a game. We play it. Somewhere along the way we took the fun out of it and charged a premium to be punished.- - Ron Sirak

David Ober

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Caddie Experience at Streamsong
« Reply #241 on: March 13, 2013, 05:18:15 PM »
A great caddie adds immeasurably to the round, a horrible one detracts equally...

One of the most enjoyable rounds of my life was last year's final round of the Macbeth at Wilshire Country Club in Los Angeles. My partner and I hooked up with one of the club's best (Jorge, I believe), who also happened to be four-time caddie club champion. He played to about a 3 handicap, and he literally missed two reads in three rounds. Amazing.

Absolutely wonderful experience.

V. Kmetz

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Caddie Experience at Streamsong
« Reply #242 on: March 13, 2013, 05:35:24 PM »
To the extent that some on the board know about me, they know I've been a caddie/caddiemaster for nearly 30 years in this area and so my remarks come with a necessary bias, but let me take off that "hat" and just mention - in admittedly general terms - one thing I have appreciated about caddies when I've had occasion to use them, is...

"Forecaddying"

And not just on blind holes either, on most every two and three shot hole. I can't explain it, but there's some assurance, some comfort that there is a spotter out there and I simply put...drive the ball better.  I can hardly think of one round where I had a caddie where I didn't drive well, sometimes spectacularly.  It's just me in this one area, but I wonder how many feel similarly more comfortable when there is that set of eyes watching.

On the greens - especially around here where I know 60% of the area green fairly well and can pick up most of the others with some study - I find a caddie invaluable for a "confirmation" of line that I interpret or perhaps in his ability to answer one question about the putt..."does it pick up speed there?/does it take that much break if I crawl it? etc...

Finally there is that "rooting" for you to prosper that I love to give (when caddying) and love to receive (when using a caddie).  There's hundreds, thousands of instances of this on both ends but the one that sticks with me was when I was playing at Sleepy Hollow and I had a blind lob shot of about 50 yards to a pin I couldn't even see.  I knew I struck it decently and would be within 20-25 feet, but still there is that not knowing...I asked Matt, "How is it?" And he reported down to me:

"It's like anal sex with a cheerleader...it's tight, and you're going to love it."

cheers

vk
"The tee shot must first be hit straight and long between a vast bunker on the left which whispers 'slice' in the player's ear, and a wilderness on the right which induces a hurried hook." -

Bill_McBride

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Caddie Experience at Streamsong
« Reply #243 on: March 13, 2013, 07:03:44 PM »
To the extent that some on the board know about me, they know I've been a caddie/caddiemaster for nearly 30 years in this area and so my remarks come with a necessary bias, but let me take off that "hat" and just mention - in admittedly general terms - one thing I have appreciated about caddies when I've had occasion to use them, is...

"Forecaddying"

And not just on blind holes either, on most every two and three shot hole. I can't explain it, but there's some assurance, some comfort that there is a spotter out there and I simply put...drive the ball better.  I can hardly think of one round where I had a caddie where I didn't drive well, sometimes spectacularly.  It's just me in this one area, but I wonder how many feel similarly more comfortable when there is that set of eyes watching.

On the greens - especially around here where I know 60% of the area green fairly well and can pick up most of the others with some study - I find a caddie invaluable for a "confirmation" of line that I interpret or perhaps in his ability to answer one question about the putt..."does it pick up speed there?/does it take that much break if I crawl it? etc...

Finally there is that "rooting" for you to prosper that I love to give (when caddying) and love to receive (when using a caddie).  There's hundreds, thousands of instances of this on both ends but the one that sticks with me was when I was playing at Sleepy Hollow and I had a blind lob shot of about 50 yards to a pin I couldn't even see.  I knew I struck it decently and would be within 20-25 feet, but still there is that not knowing...I asked Matt, "How is it?" And he reported down to me:

"It's like anal sex with a cheerleader...it's tight, and you're going to love it."

cheers

vk

Classic line, sir.  Well played.   ;D


Scott Whitley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Caddie Experience at Streamsong
« Reply #244 on: March 15, 2013, 03:44:15 PM »
FWIW, a friend just returned from Streamsong and was very impressed with Doc, who caddied for him on the Blue.  Another of the Bandon imports, I gather.

Bill Brightly

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Caddie Experience at Streamsong
« Reply #245 on: March 15, 2013, 05:06:54 PM »
As a group, the caddies we had were superb. For those looking for a recommendation, two get special mention  Sean Murphy carried bags in the morning and forecaddied in the afternoon rounds. He was excellent in all regards, but what I really liked is that he hustled his ass off when he forecaddied: running to each guy's ball to shoot the distance, wiping every club, spotting every ball as best as humanly possible, etc. Having caddied myself, I rarely got a putter job for my second loop, but I treasured them and hustled, thankful I did not have two leather Burton's strapped to my back. Sean treated the loop that way.

Pete was the best on the greens. I (silently) shook him off twice and regretted not listening. Old school character, and a blast to have in your group.

Patrick_Mucci

Re: Caddie Experience at Streamsong
« Reply #246 on: March 15, 2013, 05:24:25 PM »
Doc was caddying for the group ahead of us yesterday afternoon.

Our caddy, Mark was very good and a nice fellow to boot.

Kevin_D

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Caddie Experience at Streamsong
« Reply #247 on: March 16, 2013, 08:38:52 AM »
A couple weeks ago I had Bryant, aka "Kobe".  He was terrific - great attitude and hustle, helped with shot selection, reading greens etc.  Caddies at Bandon as well.  I'd highly recommend him.

Howard Riefs

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Caddie Experience at Streamsong
« Reply #248 on: March 04, 2014, 01:49:30 PM »
In conjunction with the upcoming Phosphate Feathery, seeking recommendations for specific caddies at Streamsong. 

Appreciate any names.
 
"Golf combines two favorite American pastimes: Taking long walks and hitting things with a stick."  ~P.J. O'Rourke

Jason Topp

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Caddie Experience at Streamsong
« Reply #249 on: March 04, 2014, 02:23:49 PM »
In conjunction with the upcoming Phosphate Feathery, seeking recommendations for specific caddies at Streamsong. 

Appreciate any names.
 


I had 4 different caddies in January and they were all quite good.  The ones I liked the best had just come over from Bandon and did not know the greens real well yet but were very honest in what they saw and did not see.  I cannot remember names unfortunately.

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