Carnegie Club / Skibo

[Ally Mcintosh]

Having never ventured to The Carnegie Club at Skibo, I just happened across Ran's write-up in the courses by country section:

www.golfclubatlas.com/courses-by-country/scotland/skibo-golf-course/

Some beautiful photographs and some beautiful looking holes. I realised that I had never seen more that the odd photo of the course and it looks impressive.

I'm going to try and swing by when I get the chance.

What's everyone's views?... Is this course underrated - if so, is it because it is private?

[David_Tepper]

I am not sure of the date of Ran's write-up on Carnegie/Skibo. The course has undergone some renovation/alteration in recent years.

Physical access to the entire Skibo property, including the golf course, became much more restricted when ownership of the estate changed hands several years ago. However, I recently did see that they are making two teetimes available (Monday thru Friday) for daily fee play, at a very steep green fee.

I believe the head greenkeeper at Skibo has posted here a few times.  

While I have been on the golf course property a few times, I have never played the course.

P.S. Don't forget there was a Shell's Wonderful World of Golf (F. Couples vs. G. Norman) filmed at Skibo probably 10-12 years ago. It was a very windy day.

Here is the entire broadcast: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tsAtYmrwoyQ

[Mitch Hantman]

David,

How steep?

[Niall C]

Ally

I did a bit of a recky last summer. As DT says it is quite private however the course is intersected by a single track lane that goes down to a local jetty. The lane has a couple of parking/passing places where you can park up and go have a look at some of the holes. The holes to the south side of the lane, are I think, the new holes and one of them in particular looks stunning. Overall I would love to give it a play but as ever, only at the right price. The new holes are by Tom MacKenzie and the old ones by his previous employer Donald Steel (I think).

Did I read somewhere that they aren't keen on the course being rated ?

Niall

[David_Tepper]

From the Carnegie/Skibo website:

"The Carnegie Links now offers limited access to non residents, with two 4 balls offered Monday through Friday during the summer months. For more information and to book a tee time, please email teetimes@carnegieclub.co.uk or call the Proshop on +44 (0)1862 894 660."

I believe the green fee could be as high as 300 pounds per person. However, that may include lunch there. I could be mistaken on both points!  

[Niall C]

..........now if it included also dinner bed and breakfast then maybe £300 might work. 

Niall

[Nigel Islam]

Please correct me if I am wrong on this, but Carnegie had a private nine hole course at Skibo that became NLE after he died and the current course is from the 1990s?

[David_Tepper]

Nigel -

I believe the 9-hole course still exists and is separate & apart from the course Donald Steele designed in the 1990's. If the 9-hole course is no longer being maintained or exists, I am pretty sure the course Steele designed was built on a different part of the Skibo estate.

DT

P.S. I have just heard from a Carnegie Club member that the original 9-hole course on the property built for Andrew Carnegie is no longer being maintained.

[Gary Daughters]

I played the course in 2005 and was quite a bit underwhelmed.  Parts of the routing seemed forced and even confusing, and the terrain was mostly flattish.  It's not linksland.  There was a very nice dune-to-dune 3 par on the front side, followed by an interesting short par 4 that runs along a loch.  Much of the rest I found to be pretty blah.  I will try to post images later.

[Tiger_Bernhardt]

I found the course to be very average. However the place is an incredible experience one should try once. It is pricey by any standard. I think $1500 a night including meals and golf. That was 8 or so years ago. Greg Norman was there preparing his game for the open my last time there. He was a good time to share a glass of wine with and talk the talk well into the evening.

[David_Tepper]

Gary D. & Tiger B. -

As noted above, the course has been altered over the past 3-4 years. For what it is worth, the course's sharp rise in one magazine's rankings of the courses in Britain is attributed to those alterations.

DT  

[jeffwarne]

..........now if it included also dinner bed and breakfast then maybe £300 might work. 

Niall

and an annual sub at Brora....

[Jon Wiggett]

As mentioned already, the head green Gary Gruber used to post on here. I know he and his crew have worked really hard to improve the course. The course itself is really exclusive to the point of been impossible for the average person to get on.

Jon

[Greg Taylor]

I had the good fortune to play the course a couple of months ago...

First of all the course is part of the Skibo estate so access is very private, and there aren't many people around... I think we saw one other  fourball... The facilities, club house and customer service were all beyond first class it has to be said.

The course however... don't get me wrong you can see the improvements, but the first few holes are relatively flat and newish holes lacking character. It does pick up from about the fifth, when you hit the shore, but all the same it isn't in the Dornoch or even Brora echelon.

Lest I create the wrong impression... it s a worthwhile experience for the ambience and customer service, but if you are on a budget the current green fee is at the very top end I what I would expect to pay, (being polite about it).

As you all probably know there are other options in the Highlands too...

[Gary Gruber]

Hello Everyone

David/Jon, thank you for taking my name in vain.....

I see there have been a number of questions raised about the course and the level of access we offer, so here is some information for you.

We do indeed offer eight tee times per week over the summer months to the general public. These are priced at £300 per head and include lunch at the clubhouse along with complimentary refreshments at the halfway house.  We appreciate that this charge is higher than other courses in the area, however it reflects the very private nature of the club.

Niall, the holes you have mentioned which are across the road are 7 & 8 and here is a picture of 7 from the tee..(first time posting photos, so hope this works!)



Ally, send me a PM if you would like to have a look round one day.

Gary & Tiger, we would hope that the work we have done over the last 8 years or so has brought the course up to a much higher standard. Again, let me know if you are in the area and fancy a look.

Greg, that is a shame that you felt that it wasn't up the standard that we feel it is, but nice to hear that your experience of the overall service was so good.

Gary

[Nigel Islam]

Nigel -

I believe the 9-hole course still exists and is separate & apart from the course Donald Steele designed in the 1990's. If the 9-hole course is no longer being maintained or exists, I am pretty sure the course Steele designed was built on a different part of the Skibo estate.

DT

P.S. I have just heard from a Carnegie Club member that the original 9-hole course on the property built for Andrew Carnegie is no longer being maintained.

I loved the part of The History Channel's Men Who Built America showing Andy Carnegie playing golf in Scotland while Frick laid the hammer down on their steel workers. I assume this was supposed to be the Skibo Castle course.

[Rich Goodale]

Nigel -

I believe the 9-hole course still exists and is separate & apart from the course Donald Steele designed in the 1990's. If the 9-hole course is no longer being maintained or exists, I am pretty sure the course Steele designed was built on a different part of the Skibo estate.

DT

P.S. I have just heard from a Carnegie Club member that the original 9-hole course on the property built for Andrew Carnegie is no longer being maintained.

Carnegie called Skibo "Frick's little gift to me" as he bought it with the $2million which Frick had to pay him in a penalty clause when they were bickering over the price of their deal.  As Gary G. can confirm, the current 18 is laid out over the ground where the old 9-holer was.  The other 9-holer referred to was built on an inland site on the property by Steel and MacKenzie as a relief course, but is not used any more, to my knowledge.

I loved the part of The History Channel's Men Who Built America showing Andy Carnegie playing golf in Scotland while Frick laid the hammer down on their steel workers. I assume this was supposed to be the Skibo Castle course.

[David_Tepper]

Rich G. -

Are you saying that, at different times, there have been two different 9-hole courses at Skibo?

The one I was aware of is the course that was to the left of the entry drive leading up to the Skibo Castle. If there was another 9-hole course (the original one) out where the 18-hole course now is, I have learned something new.

DT

[Gary Gruber]

David,

Richard is correct, the original 9 was laid out over the existing links and was lost after his death in 1919. The original clubhouse location,  which I will post a picture of tomorrow is now the site of the 13th green and we found much of it during construction. It burnt down in the 1940s I believe. I'm pretty sure John Sutherland or RDGC fame laid out the original 9.

Gary.

[David_Tepper]

Gary G. -

Thanks. I did not know that.

When was the course adjacent to the entry drive built? Before or after the 18-hole course? When did that course cease to be used/maintained?

P.S. Thanks very much to you and the all greens staffs in the Highlands who helped Golspie recover from their storm damage over the past couple of weeks.

DT  

[Andy Stamm]

I'd highly recommend the Norman v. Couples Shell match. It's one of my absolute favorites largely becaue of the extremely windy conditions, but also the players and the course. It's great to watch them battle each other, the course, and the conditions. Since having first seen it, I've always fancied a game there.

In it they interview the (former, I believe) owner and he mentions that the course occupies the sight of the original course. He also mentions that that fact helped him get the permitting to build the course. I got the impression that at the time there was little hope of building links courses in Scotland, which is interesting I think given that there have been a couple built more recently.

[Gary Daughters]

Gary G:  Thanks for your hard work there, and I am happy to hear it is paying off.  Am having Photobucket issues at the moment, but have dug up some photos and will post as I'm able.  Wondering.. have you been able to eliminate the waist high, thatchy gunch that "disappeared" golf balls?

[Gary Gruber]

Morning.

David, as Rich suggests the long lost original 9 is now where the site of the current course is, we know very little about how it was laid out but have a few sketchy photos - the one below is of the Clubhouse Carnegie had built for the course, it is on the exact site of the 13th green and we know that no1 played directly away from this to the south.



The 9 holer designed by Tom Mackenzie - The Monks Walk - was closed in 2005 and is no longer in use, it was located near to the castle and had 2 sets of tees allowing it to play either a par 27 or 35.

Gary D - We have spent a huge amount of time thinning and controling the rough as there was no doubt it was far too penal, it is however one of our prominent features in framing the golf holes so we work hard to keep it thin while retaining the "wispy" Fescue look.

[Niall C]

Gary

Many thanks for posting that picture. That indeed was the hole I was thinking of. Please don't take this the wrong way but your photo doesn't do it justice. Its the sort of hole that would make you pay a whole green fee just to play it. The other par 4 coming back up the other way looked nice as well. From what I recall it looked as though it had had a few tweaks round about the landing area ?

I also noted that on the other side of the road, there was a fair amount of land laid aside for environmental considerations. Do you have any restrictions put on you with regards to the upkeep of the course ?

Niall

[Niall C]

As an aside, Sutherland is commonly credited with designing Carnegies 9 holer however recall readign a contemporary account that credits someone else, just can't recall who off hand.

Niall