Reading 'The Spirit of St. Andrews' HELP wanted

[Angela Moser]

Hello,

maybe someone of you could help me imagine the old Routing of TOC. I just cannot understand and imagine by reading this:

p.6

"This much, however, is certain: previous to 1859 the inward nine holes, with the exception of the 18th, were originally played back to the holes doing duty for the outward nine.
   As more golfers began to play at St. Andrews, this gave rise to congestion, and fresh holes were cut for the inward nine. Formerly the course was very narrow and bordered by whin bushes, but these bushes gradually disappeared and the links became wider and wider. This additional width enabled the outward and the inward holes to be played as they are today. Nevertheless, with the exception of the 1st, 9th, 17th and 18th holes, both the outgoing and ingoing holes are played on the same greens."

[Tom_Doak]

Hello,

maybe someone of you could help me imagine the old Routing of TOC. I just cannot understand and imagine by reading this:

p.6

"This much, however, is certain: previous to 1859 the inward nine holes, with the exception of the 18th, were originally played back to the holes doing duty for the outward nine.
   As more golfers began to play at St. Andrews, this gave rise to congestion, and fresh holes were cut for the inward nine. Formerly the course was very narrow and bordered by whin bushes, but these bushes gradually disappeared and the links became wider and wider. This additional width enabled the outward and the inward holes to be played as they are today. Nevertheless, with the exception of the 1st, 9th, 17th and 18th holes, both the outgoing and ingoing holes are played on the same greens."

Angela:  The ninth and 18th greens are not played twice because they are at each end of the course.  The first and seventeenth were given separate greens when they built the green for the Road hole.  Every other hole has a double green now ... but in the old days they just played backwards down the same corridor to the same hole, and the double greens were quite a bit smaller.  (For example, none of the lower right part of the 2nd green was green surface in the old days.)

[Angela Moser]

Ahhhh!!! Playing it 4 years ago, I knew of the double greens, but I didn't know that they were playing in the same coridor. So they actually played the same holes (2,3,4,5,6,7,8) just backwards. ex. from 3 tees back to 17 green and from 5 tee to 3 green?

Thx for the quick explanation!

[Bill_McBride]

Painswick in the Cotswolds is the only course I know of still in existence where most of the holes share single width corridors.   As I recall, only 1, 5, 6, 7, 10, 15, 17 and 18 had their own fairway.  The incoming players have the right of way, after hikers and picnickers!   It's a great fun place to play. 

[jeffwarne]

Painswick in the Cotswolds is the only course I know of still in existence where most of the holes share single width corridors.   As I recall, only 1, 5, 6, 7, 10, 15, 17 and 18 had their own fairway.  The incoming players have the right of way, after hikers and picnickers!   It's a great fun place to play. 

Bill,
Otway has a single fairway for holes 2.3.4,and 5!!!! all par 4's, then 6,7,8, and 9 cross each other

[David Harshbarger]

Jeff and Bill, are there any good examples of these types of routings still here in the US?

[jeffwarne]

Jeff and Bill, are there any good examples of these types of routings still here in the US?

David,
Goat Hill on Shelter Island 7 and 8 are parallel holes that due to the slope of the the terrain, firrmness of ground, and one height of cut, one certainly will often play into the other hole's corridor (intentionally on 7 to hold the slope, and often unintentionally on 8 due to a hogback in the landing area.
particularly dicey as both tee shots are 100% blind

Blink Bonnie, a 9 holer in Maine had a hole that shared one fairway up and back

At Grindstone Neck, 6 and 9 share a fairway, but it's hugely wide and best to play to your side.
One of my assistants commented on how it was the widest corridor he had ever driven into, and that "NO ONE could ever miss this fairway, and that if they did they should quit the game"
He proceeded to hit it OB. We allowed him to keep playing

[Tom_Doak]

Painswick in the Cotswolds is the only course I know of still in existence where most of the holes share single width corridors.   As I recall, only 1, 5, 6, 7, 10, 15, 17 and 18 had their own fairway.  The incoming players have the right of way, after hikers and picnickers!   It's a great fun place to play. 

Actually both of the courses I played in Nepal used this convention. 

David Kidd's course at Gokarna Forest Resort is laid out through narrow valleys in a protected forest, so there are a lot of places where the "out" and "back" holes occupy the same general space.  He was very clever about getting the landing areas not to clash, but there are two par-5 holes on the back where the fairways are on either side of a stream, and for all practical purposes it is one double fairway with a stream snaking across the middle.

At Himalayan Golf Club, in extending the course to 18 holes, the par-4 8th fairway going out serves double duty for the par-4 9th coming back the other way, although the landing areas are in different portions since both holes are fairly short par-4's.  The ninth required a lay-up off the tee with about a six-iron over a rocky knob to a tight fairway, and then a short iron approach to a tiny green benched into the bank of the ravine on the other side of the river.  I thought that was one of the best holes on the course, so I was happy to play the preceding hole to enable it.

[Bill_McBride]

Painswick in the Cotswolds is the only course I know of still in existence where most of the holes share single width corridors.   As I recall, only 1, 5, 6, 7, 10, 15, 17 and 18 had their own fairway.  The incoming players have the right of way, after hikers and picnickers!   It's a great fun place to play. 

Actually both of the courses I played in Nepal used this convention. 

David Kidd's course at Gokarna Forest Resort is laid out through narrow valleys in a protected forest, so there are a lot of places where the "out" and "back" holes occupy the same general space.  He was very clever about getting the landing areas not to clash, but there are two par-5 holes on the back where the fairways are on either side of a stream, and for all practical purposes it is one double fairway with a stream snaking across the middle.

At Himalayan Golf Club, in extending the course to 18 holes, the par-4 8th fairway going out serves double duty for the par-4 9th coming back the other way, although the landing areas are in different portions since both holes are fairly short par-4's.  The ninth required a lay-up off the tee with about a six-iron over a rocky knob to a tight fairway, and then a short iron approach to a tiny green benched into the bank of the ravine on the other side of the river.  I thought that was one of the best holes on the course, so I was happy to play the preceding hole to enable it.

All those courses should include hard hats in the green fee!

[Sean_A]

Painswick in the Cotswolds is the only course I know of still in existence where most of the holes share single width corridors.   As I recall, only 1, 5, 6, 7, 10, 15, 17 and 18 had their own fairway.  The incoming players have the right of way, after hikers and picnickers!   It's a great fun place to play. 

I guess I will be searching forever more to find fairways on #s 5 & 10.  The odd thing about Painswick is apart from the shared fairway 8 & 9, the routing works.  Its remarkable.

Ciao 

[Robin_Hiseman]

Painswick in the Cotswolds is the only course I know of still in existence where most of the holes share single width corridors.   As I recall, only 1, 5, 6, 7, 10, 15, 17 and 18 had their own fairway.  The incoming players have the right of way, after hikers and picnickers!   It's a great fun place to play. 

Not forgetting Bill that in most instances the holes do not only share a single corridor, they cross over each other too!

[Bill_McBride]

Painswick in the Cotswolds is the only course I know of still in existence where most of the holes share single width corridors.   As I recall, only 1, 5, 6, 7, 10, 15, 17 and 18 had their own fairway.  The incoming players have the right of way, after hikers and picnickers!   It's a great fun place to play. 

I guess I will be searching forever more to find fairways on #s 5 & 10.  The odd thing about Painswick is apart from the shared fairway 8 & 9, the routing works.  Its remarkable.

Ciao 

I guess you really can't call a steep hill of thick rough a "fairway," can you?   . But you know what I was getting at, they are discrete holes with no crossovers. 

[Dan Moore]

And a detailed explnation before our very noses.

http://www.golfclubatlas.com/in-my-opinion/jeremy-glenn-the-reverse-old-course/

Anyone heard of any plans to hold days where the course is played in reverse.  Its been a few yeras since I have seen anything about it. 

[Bill_McBride]

And a detailed explnation before our very noses.

http://www.golfclubatlas.com/in-my-opinion/jeremy-glenn-the-reverse-old-course/

Anyone heard of any plans to hold days where the course is played in reverse.  Its been a few yeras since I have seen anything about it. 

I played the Reverse in the April 1, 2007 event and had a great time.  I think was the last time it was played. 

The Links Trust pretty much ignored Jeremy's excellent suggestions but it was still fun.