[Brad Isaacs]

What is a second shot golf course? Are they desirable? why or why not? What are the best second shot courses you have played?

[Mark Chaplin]

Rye and Deal spring to mind, less taxing off the tee than Sandwich and Princes but subtle slopes around the greens, along with good bunkering and tricky greens make for an enjoyable playing experience.

[Kevin Lynch]

I'm guilty of using the term in the past, but no one really asked me to explain.  I'd probably used the Potter Stewart Porn definition - "I know it when I see it."

I think Mark is on the right track, though.  I would think of it as a course with a variety of approaches, which require a bit more thinking than usual (either through penal hazards around the green or a propensity to 3-putt if you don't focus on placement). 

I wonder how many times that phrase is really a back-handed compliment, because the driver demands are vanilla or simply out-of-proportion with the approach demands.

[Ivan Morris]

Ballybunion is one of the most obvious second shot golf courses I know.

[Phil McDade]

Lawsonia. Width and options off the tee; precision needed with the approach shots.

[Sean_A]

I think a true second shot course needs a qualifier.  In my experience, the course which best fits the definition of second shot is Cleeve Cloud, but as I hinted, this isn't necessarily a good thing.  While fantastic to play sometimes, I am not sure its ideal.


Ciao

[Ronald Montesano]

Kevin,

In our area, would you consider Ironwood a second-shot course? I think that it allows golfers of all levels an opportunity to get off the tee with ease and comfort. As it moves toward the conclusion of each eighteenth, however, it demands more. I find the same at Concord Crest.

[Jeb Bearer]

Is ANGC a second shot course? Wide off the tee, for the most part, sparsely bunkered, but TONS of greenside interest.

[Ben Jarvis]

During the 2011 Presidents Cup,Tiger was quoted saying that Royal Melbourne (Composite) is perhaps the world's best second shot golf course.

However, it very much starts at the tee, where positioning on the wide fairways is crucial to being able access certain sections of the greens. Does that mean its ultimately a first shot golf course?

[Tom_Doak]

Lost Dunes strikes me as about as second shot as second shot gets...  You can hit it just about anywhere from the tee and be OK, but if you aren't Rick solid with your approaches, even if you "hit" every green, you might still be staring at 40 putts. 

Rick Solid should be the name of a teaching pro.

[Jim Sherma]

I would definitely put Hershey CC-East in this category. It's 1969 George Fazio and generally very generous off of the tees in terms of fairway width (of course, not all areas of the fairways are equal). It is fairly easy to go an entire round without missing a fairway, but the shots that remain are very demanding. The greens are on the small side and almost all are elevated around their surroundings with fall offs making the effective green surfaces play smaller. The length and uphill nature of the majority of second shots mean that I have had rounds where I've only only missed a fairway or two but still only ended up hitting only 6 to 8 greens.

[Will MacEwen]

During the 2011 Presidents Cup,Tiger was quoted saying that Royal Melbourne (Composite) is perhaps the world's best second shot golf course.

However, it very much starts at the tee, where positioning on the wide fairways is crucial to being able access certain sections of the greens. Does that mean its ultimately a first shot golf course?

I tend to think of a second shot golf course as being one where fairways are not only generous, but there isn't much in the way of strategic angles either.  The second shot requires precision, and is pretty much equally demanding from any angle in the fairway.

That being said I don't know of a course like this off hand.

[Mark Smolens]

The River Course in Kohler strikes me as one that qualifies.

[Kevin Lynch]

Kevin,

In our area, would you consider Ironwood a second-shot course? I think that it allows golfers of all levels an opportunity to get off the tee with ease and comfort. As it moves toward the conclusion of each eighteenth, however, it demands more. I find the same at Concord Crest.

Not really - just because there isn't enough variety in the length. Too many wedges to fit my idea of what a second-shot course should be.

I know I used the term talking with you in the past 12 months, but can't recall the specific course.  If I had to guess, it may have been Dormie, because there were so many options going into greens.

[J_ Crisham]

Lost Dunes strikes me as about as second shot as second shot gets...  You can hit it just about anywhere from the tee and be OK, but if you aren't Rick solid with your approaches, even if you "hit" every green, you might still be staring at 40 putts. 

Rick Solid should be the name of a teaching pro.

Tom,  That's actually pretty good! I think that just about any Pete Dye design could be considered as for him it's all about angles- if you pick the wrong one off the tee you are relegated to avoid going pin hunting. The River course was mentioned earlier and it could be argued that this is pretty typical. Others are the Ocean course and TPC Sawgrass.

[David_Elvins]

St Andrews Beach is the most "second shot" course I have played. 

Whist there is definitely good and bad parts of the fairways to hit your tee shots, there is a lot of room to play.  The greens are small with a lot of big slopes and deep bunkers around the green and many undulations in the green that make getting down in two very difficult. 

The good rounds I have are when I am hitting my irons well, as hitting the small greens is the key to scoring well. 

[Scott Stambaugh]

Bandon Trails fits the "definition" to me. I seem to always drive the ball fairly decent there, but have never scored well due to the demands placed on your second (or more) shot. Not only the trouble around the greens, but the greens themselves- hitting them in regulation means very little. It could also be labeled a Third Putt Golf Course...

Scott

[mike_beene]

Pinehurst #2 seems very much a second shot course

[Mike_Trenham]

Most Donald Ross courses meet this criteria as he defended par at the green for the most part.

[Ivan Morris]

A course doesn't have to wide to be a second shot course. Precise positioning off the tee means being in the optimum place to play an approach. If you look at a hole backwards you will always see that there is 'a specific and perfect line of approach.' It's not so easy to 'see' it when standing on the tee.

[Adam Clayman]

Brad, My take, is of course different. I would be suspect of anyone describing a course as a second shot course because, unless you were Kim       jong il, every course is a second shot course.

The term belongs in the pantheon of Golf Digest rating criteria terms, along with shot values and fairness.

[astavrides]

.

[Patrick_Mucci]

SEMINOLE, with it's generous fairways and unique green complexes and wind is a second shot golf course

[Greg Tallman]

Isn't labeling something as a "second shot" course in effect kncking the lack of importance, varuiety, options... etc placed on the tee shots?

I get the sense that Seņor Doak would be less than pleased to have one of his better effrots labled as such.

A hole or two hee and there OK but an entire course?

[Tom_Doak]

Isn't labeling something as a "second shot" course in effect kncking the lack of importance, varuiety, options... etc placed on the tee shots?

I get the sense that Seņor Doak would be less than pleased to have one of his better effrots labled as such.

A hole or two hee and there OK but an entire course?

Greg:

I am used to people calling my courses "second shot courses," because I give people room off the tee to play.  Some good golfers just want to see their opponents drive it into the rough all day, and they don't like my courses on that score. 

But, perhaps they are finding the second shots difficult because they are playing them from the wrong side of the fairways!  Hard to know for sure whether that is because of inaccurate driving or just stupidity. 

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