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Pete Buczkowski

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Christmas Special: Streamsong Blue/Doak - December 23rd Sunday at 9:05 AM
« Reply #25 on: December 24, 2012, 08:18:37 PM »

That's fair.  To be honest, it's so rare for me to build a course with four par-5 holes, I hadn't thought of it that way.  I don't know what got into me at Streamsong.  The client never really cared much about how many par-5's we had, although they did care about the total length and it's hard to get up there with fewer par-5's.

We did have a laugh at the yardage....par 72 7175 yards....very 1990s.  But I didn't really think about the length until the last 4 holes, except for 11. We played the 6700 yard tees and hit it about 240 off the tee for reference.

When I read the account of the routing, and how the main site could only accommodate 31-32 holes and that 1-5 Red needed to be found to make 36 work, I expected holes to be a bit closer together. There's no place that it feels cramped, in fact it's downright spacious. The sense of place is fantastic, extremely quiet and the views across the course are stunning.

Mike Sweeney

Re: Christmas Special: Streamsong Blue/Doak - December 23rd Sunday at 9:05 AM
« Reply #26 on: December 28, 2012, 06:36:48 PM »
“GolfClubAtlas.com is presented to promote frank commentary on golf course architecture.”

My history with Coore & Crenshaw is that I have been a big fan of C&C since my first visit to Sand Hills. Yes, I think the 14th at Cuscowilla is a great hole and I was always one of the biggest fans of Sugarloaf. Seeing some of the recent pictures of The Red @ Streamsong and then taking a tour of the course made me think that there was lots of width and options out there, I just had to play it.

Today I played with a friend from the U.K. who is a former member at Royal St. George’s. However, he lives in Brooklyn and does not play often so I thought to myself maybe we should play The Silver tees at 6094, but that sounded a little short. Thus we went to the 6584 Black tees, which are 100+ yards shorter that the 6698 Black tees on The Blue/Doak. All measurements are from The Black Tees below. Kyle Harris was our guide for the day, so we had lots of local knowledge.

Hole #1 reminds you of #1 at Sand Hills, but at 464 (Black) and playing as an up hill par 4, it is a tough tough opener, and the double bogey on the card showed its toughness.

Hole #2 is intimidating off the tee and I dunked one in the water.

Hole #3 same thing as number 2.

Yikes, where are the C&C options?

The course then settles into the C&C mode from holes 4-11 and I responded going 3 over during this stretch of holes with a birdie opportunity missed.

The back 9 on The Red from The Black tees plays 3511 at the following distances:

431, 408, 472, 508, 166, 453, 184, 384, 505.

Where is the C&C flexibility and options on the back 9 at The Red?

No short fours, both of the longer par 3’s are on the back.

The par 5’s play 508, 521 on the front and 508 and 505 on the back.

The Biarritz Green and Black tees play on the right side of this picture and as a result are very difficult to hit anything but a cut into a Biarittz????



The Placement from The Silver tee on The Biarritz had a great angle.

Now with all of the above, I will guess that The Red course will be ranked higher by Golf Digest and lower by Golfweek than The Blue. It is the visually more appealing course and the tougher walk of The Red is due to the more up and down and dramatic terrain. For me it played longer that The Blue.

Better players will probably prefer The Red, but for the regular guy golfer getting off a plane in Tampa and Orlando after not hitting a ball for 2-3 months, it is clearly the tougher of the two and the toughest C&C course that I have played.

I thought Tom Doak presented the golfer with more options, variety and flexibility. With a grand total of one play on both courses, my current 10 round split would be 7 on The Doak and 3 on The C&C.

In general, I preferred the greens of C&C and it is a great complementary course that all will enjoy. However I think the C&C will need some tweaking to make it more playable for the regular guy golfer.

Happy New Year.
« Last Edit: December 28, 2012, 06:42:41 PM by Mike Sweeney »

Jud_T

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Update with The Red/C&C - Christmas Special: Streamsong Blue/Doak
« Reply #27 on: December 28, 2012, 06:45:03 PM »
Mike,

Thanks.  Interesting.  Was there more distance variation from the 6100 tees?
Golf is a game. We play it. Somewhere along the way we took the fun out of it and charged a premium to be punished.- - Ron Sirak

Bill Brightly

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Update with The Red/C&C - Christmas Special: Streamsong Blue/Doak
« Reply #28 on: January 07, 2013, 04:27:43 PM »
Got my first report on SS from a friend's brother from Chicago. The treehouse will appreciate these comments:

"Raved about the iron shots into the greens on both courses. Liked the C & C track a little more because the Doak greens and fairways had  lots of bumps, which made for some funky lies and crazy putts, felt he'd do much better if he played it again because he'd know where to hit it. Overall both courses are superb, not like other courses in Florida."


Keep in mind the guy is a high single digit handicapper from Medinah, probably never played a Doak before... I am happy because they cut their World Woods trip short and added a round on each of the Streamsong courses after being copied in on an email I sent about SS, and they really loved the place.

Mike Sweeney

Re: Update with The Red/C&C - Christmas Special: Streamsong Blue/Doak
« Reply #29 on: January 08, 2013, 06:33:51 AM »

Keep in mind the guy is a high single digit handicapper from Medinah, probably never played a Doak before... I am happy because they cut their World Woods trip short and added a round on each of the Streamsong courses after being copied in on an email I sent about SS, and they really loved the place.


Bill,

Medinah single digit !! This sort of fits my theory that the two courses could be perfect models for the Digest vs Golfweek models of ranking courses. I have gotten a few interesting IM's about my views and I have not been banned from the C&C fan club yet.  :D Perhaps some others will chime in here over the next few weeks before, during, and after the PGA show in Orlando.
« Last Edit: January 08, 2013, 06:36:03 AM by Mike Sweeney »

Patrick_Mucci

Re: Update with The Red/C&C - Christmas Special: Streamsong Blue/Doak
« Reply #30 on: January 09, 2013, 09:26:34 PM »
Mike Sweeney & Tom Doak,

I'd like to play 36 a day with my son for two days in mid-March and stay on or as close to the property as possible.

What do you suggest as the best way to make arrangements ?

Tom_Doak

  • Karma: +3/-1
Re: Update with The Red/C&C - Christmas Special: Streamsong Blue/Doak
« Reply #31 on: January 09, 2013, 10:17:36 PM »
Patrick:

I would call them and see when or if you can book two of the 12 rooms in the clubhouse.  I think that staying there is going to be a great experience, and you'll have to stay a half hour away from the resort if you're going to stay anywhere else.

I don't know what the status of room bookings is, but I imagine they will sell out for the season in pretty short order.

By this time next year, there will be a 200-room hotel on site and availability won't be a problem.

Patrick_Mucci

Re: Update with The Red/C&C - Christmas Special: Streamsong Blue/Doak
« Reply #32 on: January 09, 2013, 11:21:33 PM »
Tom,

Thanks, I'll call them tomorrow.

I like the convenience of staying in the clubhouse and my son is already very excited after I showed him the photos of the course.