Tell me about Hell's Half Acre - PVGC #7

[Brett_Morrissy]

For those that have played this golf hole - can you please describe the physical and mental challenges & decisions required to conquer this hole?

What kind of shots were you tempted to make, did you make those decisions and were you able to execute them, or did the mental challenge perhaps mess with your commitment to complete the task?

What length is provided from tee to half acre hazard? What is the depth of the hazard?

Is it a straight forward two shots easy drive and easy carry with today's equipment, has anyone played with older clubs?

Is it a brilliant design, and as Tillinghast said, the ideal 3 shot hole, the green must be beyond range of any player who misses his drive or second stroke - is this still relevant today?

[Tommy Williamsen]

I am not a long hitter so for me the tee shot is important.  If I don't hit it well and onto the fairway clearing the sand is more difficult.  I just hit driver, three wood wedge.  Like so many par fives for me it is a three shot hole.  The green is relatively large but when the pin is up front it is easy to get careless.
Longer hitters have more to think about.

[Patrick_Mucci]

For those that have played this golf hole - can you please describe the physical and mental challenges & decisions required to conquer this hole?

What kind of shots were you tempted to make, did you make those decisions and were you able to execute them, or did the mental challenge perhaps mess with your commitment to complete the task?

Brett,

Your tee shot is probably THE critical shot.
It determines whether or not you have a reasonable chance of carrying HHA, or, if you have to lay up.
Any tee shot that does not find the fairway or immediate rough is doomed and destined to just try to recover to a position that will allow you to attempt carrying HHA.

If you've hit a good drive, there's still an intimidating factor, made obvious by the visual presentation of HHA.
You can't miss your second shot.
You still have to hit it straight, although the second fairway is very generous.
But, a missed shot will invariably result in being in HHA.
Now, luck becomes a factor.
You have to hope that your ball comes to rest in a decent lie, and not in a bush or depression, making extrication almost impossible.
Being in that hazard can ruin your round

What length is provided from tee to half acre hazard?

Depends upon the tees you play.
Go to "Google Earth" for a good view

What is the depth of the hazard?

Is it a straight forward two shots easy drive and easy carry with today's equipment, has anyone played with older clubs?

For me, and for those I've played with, it's never been an easy drive and it's never been an easy second shot.
There's an omnipresent tension on every shot

Is it a brilliant design, and as Tillinghast said, the ideal 3 shot hole, the green must be beyond range of any player who misses his drive or second stroke - is this still relevant today?

I believe it's as relevant today as it was 50 years ago

[ward peyronnin]

It is terrifying and looks like an endless expanse

[Joel_Stewart]

I've never had a problem with this hole.  I suspect it's about 240 from the tee to HHA, I always try to hit it as close as I can and then hit my second down the left side for the best angle in.   I think I hit my second shot to the right one time and it was big time trouble.

I can see if you're a short hitter it might be a problem with the carry but then numerous holes at PV can have this problem.

[Scott Warren]

Brett,

Still very relevant today. If you don't hit a good drive you will struggle to get across in two shots, but if you've only missed the drive marginally, you'll be near enough that you feel like you should be able to make it. It's a tease.

With a good drive away, you've got one of your best chances at a birdie on the course and the second shot should be fairly straightforward, but HHA is an immense visual presence and brings a fair bit of nervousness to that swing.

The depth is not great and the surface is fairly good to hit from in parts, but absolute horror in other parts. You might get lucky and have a decent shot from in there, but you probably won't.

From the member's tee it's about 280 metres (310 yards) to reach HHA, which is ~90 metres (100 yards) long. So 370 metres (410 yards) to get across it.

So a ~210-metre (230-yard) drive (about how far I "miss" one off the toe or heel) leaves about 160 metres (175 yards) to carry the hazard. And it's all carry and slightly uphill, so the landing area is blind.

The fairway is generous, the land quite flat, the green fairly benign. And yet 7 can be an absolute terror of a hole - all because of HHA.

Some pics of the hole:

Tee shot:
http://Second shot:


HHA from the right:


Approach to the green:

[Patrick_Mucci]

Scott,

Thanks for the photos.

Don't forget that the prevailing winds are cross winds, making the hole a little more difficult

[Stephen Davis]

Thanks for posting those pictures. It gives a great look at what the player faces. Knowing how I hit my 3 wood off the deck I am pretty sure that would not be coming out on this hole. That is a lot of ground to cover and the uphill definitely looks like it would play with your mind. What is the largest number any of you have seen someone put up on this hole? Was it because they got caught in HHA?

[Patrick_Mucci]

Stephen,

Yes, HHA is a round killer.

If you hit it into HHA, you can have unplayables and drops that are close to unplayables.

I've seen scores in the 20's when the wheels come off and the golfer is unlucky

[Stephen Davis]

WOW! That is incredible. I can say for certainty that I have never seen a 20. How about that for a memorable round At least they have consolation of having it happen at PVGC. Hopefully it wasn't their only time playing. That would be some serious unfinished business at a course they are unlikely to get another shot at. 

[David Davis]

Thanks for the photos Scott. Not having played it yet I'd have to say the photos make it look a lot less intimidating than I thought and that some have made it sound. Landing area on the drive looks very wide, so it takes a pretty bad miss (right?) to get you in big trouble. Second shot I imagine intimidates people the most. To me it looks like 3 wood, then anything from a 5 iron to a rescue and a short iron. Of course they all have to be struck pretty well but what else are you going to expect of yourself on your one moment in the sun.

Patrick I've never seen a 20 and the worst I've ever made in a strokeplay match was a 12 I believe and that was on a 540 meter par 5 in windforce 7-8 from an elevated tee trying to hit a tiny fairway, 2nd shot steep uphill and blind, not making it due to the wind 3rd shot also blind, at least on that day and reloading 4 times off the tee.

It doesn't look like that kind of hole, but it does look fun and exciting.

[Tom Birkert]

Brilliant hole, and probably the thing I remember most is finding out that the green is actually deeper than it is wide, which it certainly does not appear to be when you're standing over your approach shot.

For me, I needed to hit a good drive to make carrying HHA the option. If you're not in the fairway / rough then you don't have a realistic chance of getting over HHA, which makes the drive mentally a difficult one in my opinion.

[Tom ORourke]

I have played the hole and been to a few Crump Cups. A few years ago some lenghtening was done to the course. The tee box on #7 was moved back, pretty much into the back yard of one of the homes on the course. But more of an impact was made to the hole when the tee on #9 was moved back as it was backed up almost into the fairway of #7 and surrounded by some pines. That tightened the landing area by quite a bit on the left. Many of the Crump Cup players hit a 3 wood as they are long enough to carry HHA in two, and the accuracy of the tee shot is the key to the hole. Great hole.

[Ivan Morris]

As I remember it from 20-years ago, Hell seemed like it was more than half an acre and I was relieved not to have been in it. The secret I thought was not so much clearing HHA but putting the third shot over on the left and not too close to the green. Of course, when I last played it, I was a younger, stronger dude and could do that sort of thing. The hole may be a slightly more intimidating proposition today? Arguably, the best 3-shot hole I have ever played...............

[Lester George]

This one really works me over.  In the number of times I have played it, I have never finished it with less than "X".  I have often wondered about what it is like to putt on that green as I have only dropped a couple down and swiped at them after picking up my ball.  That being the case, I think it is one of the best holes on the course.

Lester

[archie_struthers]

 


Some great analysis and answers about this wonderful par five. I'll try to embellish.

The drive is the key shot for the low handicap player, as it needs to be in the fairway or else it can get sketchy. Lots of long hitters would hit one iron or three wood in my day (late 70's early 80's) as you had to hit it about 250 to get it near the end of the fairway from the tees of that era. The new back tee is way back, and it's almost 325 yards to the end of the first fairway , where hell's half acre begins.

HHA is approximately 70 yards wide and 105 yards long , so its about 440 carry from the tips to carry the hazard in two shots. From the daily tees I'd figure its 380 yards.  The average player , devoid of wind , can get over in two , but the fear of not carrying the "acre" has caused many a topped shot. The key to playing Pine Valley is not to miss any one shot really badly and swinging freely in spite of this fear. Easier said than done, lol.  I've seen hundreds of rounds ruined by a single bad shot, and a vain attempt to recover from it.

Someone touched on the need to hit the second shot left, a very good idea for most players. The expert would do wise to see what side of the green the pin is on and hit his second accordingly. The angle of approach to the green is critical if you have hopes of stuffing one close.  Smart play for most is middle green , putt very carefully.  

This green is deceptively difficult and not always appreciated. There are some slow putts on the green going front to back and it's hard to wrap your mind around it on what looks like a flattish green .  This being said , if the expert can hit his shot underneath  the pin and be aggressive they will get a lot of  makeable birdie putts. For most of us mortals , par is a very good score.

[Howard Riefs]

For those who hit their second shot into HHA (say 10 yards short of carrying it), how difficult is a recovery shot? Can you still go for the green in three?

[archie_struthers]

 

Howard , usually not. On rare occasions a strong player might dub one in and get a clean lie towards the end of HHA, and knock it on the green with an exceptional shot. However this is very rare and could lead to more trouble. At PVGC heroic shots most often bring nothing but .........pain.........lol!

This green has been reached just a few times in two , but only in recent years with the new equipment. It was a source of mystery to me in that the distance is certainly not the issue. Although super long hitters need to lay up on the tee shot , the second shot is well within their distance capabilities. The problem lies in holding the surface , with the kick plate in the front of the green shooting all low trajectory shots over the green. Hybrids solved the problem for somebody ! In fact I made a bet with our fellow GCA maven JES that someone would hit it on the green in two within the year. Thirteen months later it happened, but I lost lunch and beer at Charlies's Bar in Somers Point NJ by a month. Nothing coms easy, even when you can future. 

[Scott Warren]

The green was hit and held in two shots for the first time in 2009 or 10.

A young elite amateur hit 4 wood, 4 wood from memory.

[Howard Riefs]

Howard , usually not. On rare occasions a strong player might dub on in and get a clean lie towards the end of HHA, and knock it on the green with an exceptional shot. However this is very rare and could lead to more trouble. At PVGC heroic shots most often bring nothing but .........pain.........lol!

Thanks, Archie. 

[Mark McKeever]

Great responses Pat and Archie.  I dont really have much to add to the discussions of this great hole!

Mark

[Joe Bausch]

The planimeter at Acme.com suggests HHA is really HFA!  It is actually a full acre or more.

I know this fellow that finally hit a decent drive for the day on the 7th, then dubbed one short of HHA, hit a 3rd that just tumbled into the front bunker, only to get up and down for a par.  Easy as pie.   

[Michael Blake]

The green was hit and held in two shots for the first time in 2009 or 10.

A young elite amateur hit 4 wood, 4 wood from memory.

At one of the Crump Cups I attended a member/marshal told me Davis Love hit it in two with one iron-one iron during the 1985 Walker Cup.

Could be a myth--one that I continue to perpetuate on HHA threads.  Maybe Archie or Tom Paul know the truth.

[archie_struthers]

 


Davis Love did not hit the seventh green in two in the 1985 Walker Cup . He did hit some incredible one irons off the tees, and seldom used driver. The green remained virginal until just a few years ago.  Some people may have hit it over the green but none had held it until then.

As stated previously, it is really surprising to me that it took so long, despite some obvious reasons. The green is not receptive for one and the fairway runs out for really long hitters on the tee shot.

But again , no Davis Love did not hit the green.

[Curtis Woods]

I'm a newbie to post, but have followed this site for years. This is undoubtedly one of the very best topics ever and the posts were wonderfully informative and descriptive (and nicely void of any insults, acrimony and sniping that has occurred much too much lately).

Let's do similar commentary on other great holes on other great courses.