Kelowna Golf and Country Club with commentary by consulting archie Jeff Mingay

[Garland Bayley]

Note: A. V. Macan preferred to be called Mac, so I will use that throughout this thread.

As can be seen from the routing, Kelowna is not built on a large tract of land like many of the new courses we enthuse about on this website such as the courses at the Bandon Resort. On the genius thread, Tom Doak suggested that routing on a small piece of land does not demonstrate the genius that routing on a large piece of land does, because many of the decisions are dictated to you. However, it seems to me that a routing still needs to be well thought out to place significant features of the land in appropriate and strategic positions. I think Mac has done this well here with the use of the slopes of the land on this course.

Routing by Garland Bayley, on Flickr

The first hole is a short par 5, 436-509. Mac really did not believe in long three shot holes. He felt golf was more interesting if several holes were on the edge of being reachable in two. His formula for ideal hole lengths was six holes from 420 to 475, five holes from 360 to 410, three holes from 320 to 350, and 4 holes from 140 to 220. He later revised this to extend holes out to 525 as equipment advanced.
Hole1 by Garland Bayley, on Flickr



Unfortunately Google Earth elevation profiles are mismatched to the land. The marker is at 200 yards from the tee, but the turbo-boost slope for the drive is shown well before that. Also, there are discrete jumps in the elevation profiles that need to be interpreted as a smooth line that has been interrupted by inadequacies of the technology.
Hole1Elevation by Garland Bayley, on Flickr



The tee shot.
PicHole1TeeShot by Garland Bayley, on Flickr



Looking back at the turbo boost landing area of the first hole. I chose fairway wood off the tee, and ended up rolling part way down this slope, whereas my playing partner landing his driver shot on the hill and was propelled to the flat land below the hill.
PicHole1LandingAreaHill by Garland Bayley, on Flickr



After dubbing my shot from the downhill lie, to the base of the hill, I was left with this approach.
PicHole1Approach by Garland Bayley, on Flickr



The green sits up on a rise and is well bunkered.
PicHole1Green by Garland Bayley, on Flickr

[Bill_McBride]

Where's this, Garland?   That's an excellent Muirfield routing, front nine clockwise around the perimeter, back nine safely inside, protecting the slicers from the OB stakes.  He did the same at Columbia-Edgewater. 

[Garland Bayley]

This is Kelowna, BC. It's where Bob and I played the day before KP started at Sagebrush. It's the place where Bob found his game. He had been easy pickings for me up until that day.

[Bill_McBride]

This is Kelowna, BC. It's where Bob and I played the day before KP started at Sagebrush. It's the place where Bob found his game. He had been easy pickings for me up until that day.

No comment.

[Will MacEwen]

I believe Jeff Mingay is doing, or scheduled to do, some work on the course. 

[Bob Jenkins]

Garland,

I am not sure if you were aware but John Harbottle had been hired by Kelowna GC to either renovate or restore the course. Of course, Mr. Harbottle suddenly passed away last summer. It understand that our Jeff Mingay has now been retained to carry on the work at Kelowna and perhaps he can tell us something about the proposed changes. Jeff is a great admirer of Mac and I suspect he will be trying to restore some features. I believe that Les Furber did some work on the course several years ago. It certainly looks that way will  lots of mounding and the shaping of the bunkers.

Kelowna has always been a fun track and I suspect Jeff will perform his usual magic. His work at Victoria GC has been excellent.

Bob J

[Jeff_Mingay]

John Harbottle and I were the two architects short-listed for this project back in 2011. John was hired and created a Master Plan for the course.

Only a few of John's recommendations were carried out prior to his unfortunate and untimely passing earlier this year. Tees at the 8th hole were relocated (good move) in conjunction with some shaping on the right side of the 7th green, a small fill was made in an awkward spot on the 14th fairway, and a new practice green was built.

I got involved at Kelowna in late summer this year. We did some preliminary bunker work at the 7th, 8th (greenside only) and 14th holes this fall. We're now talking about what's next and how and when the proposed work will be carried out.

Kelowna Golf and Country Club is a neat place, located right in the middle of the city of Kelowna. But too many architects have done piecemeal work there. The lack of design continuity throughout the course is glaring. There's been a golf course on the club's current property since the 1920s (not sure who the original designer was). Vernon Macan did some significant remodel work during the late 1950s (essentially a new course, it seems). Then Les Furber and Graham Cooke/Wayne Carleton made a number changes. There are holes at Kelowna from all of these different eras that don't merge very well, at all.  

My guess is that there are six Macan holes left today: 6, 10, 11, 16-18. That's it. The 10th, 16th and 18th holes are incredibly good, too, by far the best holes at Kelowna.

I think it was some time during the 1990s that the city of Kelowna made a land swap deal with the club. The city took a very sandy parcel which contained Macan's 6th thru 9th holes (where there's now a cemetery) and gave a piece of heavy clay (where holes 2-4, designed by Cooke/Carleton, are now). The 1st and 8th greens were also redone as part of this redesign project, and today's par 3 9th replaced what appeared to be another incredibly good, long par 4 designed by Macan.

As I understand, the 5th, 7th and 14th greens are Furber's; the 12th thru 15th might be too. They're definitely not Macan's holes, I know that.  

The club is interested in and proud of its connection to Macan. My hope is to basically remodel the bunker style, introduce some new bunker schemes, and do some additional shaping work around greens and elsewhere to restore design continuity throughout the course in a style inspired by Macan's architecture.

Again, Kelowna's a neat spot. I'm excited about the prospects there. We'll see what happens...

[Garland Bayley]

I was aware of John Harbottle's work there. He passed on shortly before we went there. I actually hit a ball into some of his irrigation work on a couple of holes. In one case, I had to climb down in a hole and fish my ball out of the works of a valve in the irrigation system.

Thanks for the info on two to four Jeff. They certainly looked out of character to the course.

[Jeff_Mingay]

I have some photos of the old Macan holes in the cemetery I should post. You can still see them - a neat par 4 (the old 7th) with an incredible mountains view behind the green and long views of the entire city of Kelowna standing on the old green followed by a really cool, slightly downhill and short par 3 that played over a sand quarry; then the aforementioned long par 4 9th played off a high tee to a rolling fairway to a green perched above the fairway next to the clubhouse.

Frankly, the new 2nd thru 4th holes are a very unfortunate replacement for the original holes. The new holes are built in an old orchard on heavy clay. Most of the rest of the course, including the old "cemetery holes", are built on sand. The new holes really do feel like they belong on another golf course. We're hopefully going to have an opportunity to try to fix this in the near future. 

[Garland Bayley]

Hole 2 100 to 165
Hole2 by Garland Bayley, on Flickr


The hole plays across a depression with a pond to a slightly higher green.
Hole2Elevation by Garland Bayley, on Flickr


The back tees bring the greenside bunkers more into play, while the forward tees have a more open shot.
PicHole2TeeShot by Garland Bayley, on Flickr


The green slopes towards the front to receive the tee shot, with the back leveling out.
PicHole2Green by Garland Bayley, on Flickr


Hole 3 302 to 341
Hole3 by Garland Bayley, on Flickr


The hole rises the whole length of the hole making it play longer than the published yardage.
Hole3Elevation by Garland Bayley, on Flickr


My buddy Bob complained about the bench on the tee in front then hit a drive straight up the center of the fairway. After telling him the bench wasn't in play and not to worry, I hit my drive thin and nailed the bench dead on, ending up with negative yardage on the drive. 
PicHole3TeeShot by Garland Bayley, on Flickr


The green angles back to the left, making an approach from the right side favorable.
PicHole3Green by Garland Bayley, on Flickr


Hole 4 340 to 420
Hole4 by Garland Bayley, on Flickr


The hole plays back down the slope the previous hole ascended.
Hole4Elevation by Garland Bayley, on Flickr


The hole doglegs left around a bunker guarding the corner. From forward tees, the tiger golfer could carry the bunker leaving a shorter approach. However, from that back tee the hole plays almost straight away.
PicHole4TeeShot by Garland Bayley, on Flickr


Not being a tiger golfer, as I was recovering from arthritic hand pain from the winter, I came up short of the bunker for my approach.
PicHole4Approach by Garland Bayley, on Flickr

[Garland Bayley]

Hole 5 320-384
Hole5 by Garland Bayley, on Flickr


The hole plays uphill and is the #1 handicap hole. I don't know quite how it gained that distinction other than it is on the front nine, and there are harder holes on the back nine where handicap numbers have to start with 2.
Hole5Elevation by Garland Bayley, on Flickr


Tee shot
PicHole5TeeShot by Garland Bayley, on Flickr


Approach
PicHole5Approach by Garland Bayley, on Flickr

[Jeff_Mingay]

The original golf course site features some beautiful pine trees. The new holes (2-4) in the old orchard have no pines (other than some junky Austrians), which enhances the unfortunate contrast between these holes and the rest of the course. The club should have, and now need to try (if possible) to strategically plant native pines in this area of the course. I've recommended this, but there is also the unfortunate circumstance in British Columbia presented by the pine beetle. The pines at Kelowna are still holding up pretty good though, and quite a bit is spent on monitoring these trees, for good reason, too.  

The other unfortunate feature that makes new holes 2-4 stand-out is all of the peripheral shaping work. The best holes at Kelowna (1, 6, 10, 11, 16-18) are very lay of the land, in an excellent way. You don't see symetrical mounds in the peripheral rough areas like at these holes.  

And, speaking of trees, I'm very happy to report that those obnoxious cedars behind the 5th green have ALL been removed

[Garland Bayley]

Hole 6 397 to 503
Taking advantage of the property given may have been quite obvious here as par 5 doglegs around the cliff bordering the course.
Hole6 by Garland Bayley, on Flickr


The hole plays somewhat level throughout.
Hole6Elevation by Garland Bayley, on Flickr


Tee shot showing how hole turns left around the cliff on the right.
PicHole6TeeShot by Garland Bayley, on Flickr


A long drive exposes a view of the green for the approach.
PicHole6SecondShot by Garland Bayley, on Flickr


The green has some front to back slope. Something Mac was inclined to do.
PicHole6Green by Garland Bayley, on Flickr

[Garland Bayley]

Hole 7 239 to 269
Hole7 by Garland Bayley, on Flickr


A drivable par 4 that plays slightly up hill.
Hole7Elevation by Garland Bayley, on Flickr


To gain the green surface the ball will have to turn left a little. This does not fit Mac's standard hole lengths and I have to wonder if when he did his work on the course it was a long par 3. The teeing area looks to have been pushed back to gain some extra yardage. Or, perhaps it was a par 4 that lost land to the the city for the cemetery, and is now as shortened version of the old hole.
PicHole7TeeShot by Garland Bayley, on Flickr

[Jeff_Mingay]

The 7th is the first hole we did some work on this fall. It seems the hole was laid-out in the same place, same length by Macan. But it now has a green and bunkers by Les Furber (I think). It's a green unlike another on the course, too - narrow and almost 50 yards deep.

We remodelled the bunkers you see in the photo above. The large one on the right was split into two bunkers; shapes were simplified a bit; and, a grass face style inspired by some of Macan's best work was employed. There's another bunker right of the green that you can't see. This bunker used to be at the same elevation as the putting surface, built into a mound. In conjunction with completely re-shaping the area right and behind this green, this mound's now gone and the greenside bunker is 3-4 feet below the level of the green.

The L-shape hedge you see in the aerial, right of the 7th green is also (thankfully) gone. The 8th tees have been shifted to the right as well, creating a much better angle for the tee shot at #8 and eliminating awkwardness and potential danger there. 

This is the cemetery hole. You can see the large cemetery left of the 7th hole in the aerial, above.
 

[Garland Bayley]

Hole 8 330 to 370
 According to Jeff's post above the tee has moved to the right.
Hole8 by Garland Bayley, on Flickr


The hole plays moderately downhill and doglegs around a tree that makes for some decision making on the tee.
Hole8Elevation by Garland Bayley, on Flickr


Comparing the Google Earth view with this picture, it seems the tee had already been moved right by the time we played there. (EDIT: after reviewing Jeff's earlier post, I see that Harbottle had moved the tees before we got there.) I liked this hole, and even though my ball flight generally turns left, I was hindered by the trees for my approach.
PicHole8TeeShot by Garland Bayley, on Flickr


This view give a better look at the bunker/tree dilemma offered up by the hole.
PicHole8Approach by Garland Bayley, on Flickr


The green offered up some interesting contours.
PicHole8Green by Garland Bayley, on Flickr

[Garland Bayley]

Hole 9 128 to 175
Hole9 by Garland Bayley, on Flickr


The hole plays significantly down hill. As with the first hole, Google Earth has the elevations shifted significantly to the left of where they should be.
Hole9Elevation by Garland Bayley, on Flickr


View from the tee. You can see the significant ridge in the green from the tee easily as it even stands out in the picture from behind the tee.
PicHole9TeeShot by Garland Bayley, on Flickr

[Jeff_Mingay]

The 8th is a Cooke/Carleton-designed hole, I believe. It was created when the club swapped land with the city and the course lost holes 6-9 in that process. The 8th is the old 6th on the Macan course, which had a green up and to the left of the current green. The course then used to move into the cemetery for holes 7 thru 9 tees.

I think you're right GJ, looks like the tees at #8 had already been shifted right when you played there.

As per Harbottle's plan, we removed the left greenside bunker at #8 this fall, replacing it with a ridge-like/mound feature that partially hides a back-left flagstick and obscures view of the putting surface from the left side of the fairway. The fairway flashes up on the greenside up this feature, too, which should allow for some interesting recovery play from the right trees (a popular spot off the tees). You should he able to work the ball off of the backside of this ridge, onto the green. The right greenside bunker was remodelled in simpler shape with a grass face and made deeper. And, a new bunker was installed front-right.

My favourite thing about the 8th hole is the lovely long view toward the mountains behind the green. On clear days it's gorgeous. My least favourite thing about the hole is that the best players at the club (and there are a lot of really good golfers at Kelowna) can almost drive the green. It's a drive and a flip for most low handicap players. 

[Dale Jackson]

Hole 7 239 to 269

 This does not fit Mac's standard hole lengths and I have to wonder if when he did his work on the course it was a long par 3. The teeing area looks to have been pushed back to gain some extra yardage. Or, perhaps it was a par 4 that lost land to the the city for the cemetery, and is now as shortened version of the old hole.

The 7th is the first hole we did some work on this fall. It seems the hole was laid-out in the same place, same length by Macan. But it now has a green and bunkers by Les Furber (I think). It's a green unlike another on the course, too - narrow and almost 50 yards deep.

 

GB, in my experience Macan almost always included a short Par 4 in his designs.  Consider Royal Colwood #8, Inglewood #3, Marine Drive #8, Shaughnessy#14, Broadmoor #8, Fircrest #12 (borderline), etc.  The length of the 7th at Kelowna may edge towards the short side of short Par 4s but I have long thought that type of hole was one of Macan's strengths.

Jeff, and others, may have further thoughts.

BTW, thanks for posting this tour of Kelowna, for all its changes and "ups and downs" it remains an interesting course, and, like all Macan courses still (for the most part) exhibits a routing that is uniquely his. 

Memberships and architects can change the bunkering, greens and other parts of his courses but none that I am aware of have changed his routings, unless, as with Kelowna, outside circumstances have been dictated otherwise.

[Garland Bayley]

Hole 10 431 to 441
Hole10 by Garland Bayley, on Flickr


The drive like the drive at the 1st has a downslope that can be sought to propel the ball forward. Unfortunately the Google Earth elevation has it shown to be too near the tee.
Hole10Elevation by Garland Bayley, on Flickr


The tee shot shows there is a dowslope in the distance. Appropriately placing such downslopes in the routing shows a knack for usage of the land in routing the course.
PicHole10TeeShot by Garland Bayley, on Flickr


A distant view of the green.
PicHole10Approach by Garland Bayley, on Flickr


If my memory serves me right there is a front to back sloping component to this green too.
PicHole10Green by Garland Bayley, on Flickr

[Garland Bayley]

Hole 11 337 to 347
Hole11 by Garland Bayley, on Flickr


The hole once again rises as we have turned and are playing towards the ridgeline bordering the course.
Hole11Elevation by Garland Bayley, on Flickr


The elevation rise partially blocks view of the landing area for the drive from the tee.
PicHole11TeeShot by Garland Bayley, on Flickr


Looking back at the green with the 11th fairway right, and the 12th fairway left.
PicHole11Green by Garland Bayley, on Flickr

[Cory Brown]

Great review of a club that is high on my to see list. Garland, I'm going to have to guess you miss a lot of putts on the right side. Either that or you were only wearing one shoe when you took the pictures Just kidding. I'm actually very excited to see Jeff getting the opportunity to work at this club. I can't wait to see more of the work being done there.

[Garland Bayley]

Hole 12 467 to 552 A hole longer than what Macan would normally design. I have to think the green has been moved in a most unfortunate way to extend the hole.
Hole12 by Garland Bayley, on Flickr

The hole plays out fairly flat for at least 350 yards before descending sharply to the pond that the green has been pushed into. The elevation graph needs to be moved somewhat to the right as we are going in the opposite direction of the 1st and 10th where the graph was offset in the opposite direction.
Hole12Elevation by Garland Bayley, on Flickr


Tee shot.
PicHole12TeeShot by Garland Bayley, on Flickr


After a good drive, the 2nd shot puts the down slope in range to truly accelerate your ball towards the green, and in this configuration, a watery death. I have to think the hole was much more fun to play before some silly modern sensibilities decided a virtually island green should be created here sucking all the fun out of the hole and turning it into a dictated target golf exercise. Perhaps those in the know can verify or disprove my suspicion that Macan would never have created such a design for the green location.
PicHole12SecondShot by Garland Bayley, on Flickr


To me this is where the course turns bad, and becomes boring for awhile.
PicHole12Approach by Garland Bayley, on Flickr

[Garland Bayley]

Hole 13 141 to 178
Hole13 by Garland Bayley, on Flickr

The elevation graph property indicates an essentially level hole.
Hole13Elevation by Garland Bayley, on Flickr


And, it's a reverse redan. A redan is a very interesting and challenging hole to play. Why it has to be corrupted with water is beyond me. When I point out how artificial the pond on Bandon Trails looks some people can't seem to see it. (Some people adamantly insist it can't be artificial.) I hope that can see that this has a totally artificial look. Given the length of the walk from this hole to the 14th tee, I suspect that this hole is not original to the course.
PicHole13TeeShot by Garland Bayley, on Flickr

[Jeff_Mingay]

The 10th hole is a really good Macan hole. It's an excellent long, challenging par 4 over some really good topo played to a neat lay-of-the-land green. Other than at the 6th, it's not until here, at the 10th, that I believe you really get a look at and feel for what Macan's course at Kelowna was like. These holes, + the 11th, 16th thru 18th, are Macan's course.

We're planning to knock a pretty severe collar dam off the front of the 10th green and expand that area of the putting surface slightly, which should create/restore a few interesting holes up front and improve the look of the approach shot. Right now, the collar dam is built up so high on the front of the green that you don't seen any putting surface from down in the fairway. This dam also causes drainage problems.

A tree or two immediately adjacent to the green at right need(s) to go as well. They're beautiful pines but these trees are way too close to the green (roots under the putting surface). And, I've also suggested the greenside bunker left is not required. This would be a great bunker-less hole.

The 11th is short but another nice lay-of-the-land hole with a cool looking tee shot up and over a subtle rise in the ground that'll be even better when the cart path is shifted left, out of view. The plan is also to merge the 11th tee with the adjacent 18th tee, to create a single teeing area for both holes. Right now these trees are awkwardly separated by a hedge.

The 12th is not a Macan hole. I understand that back in Macan's day the pond wasn't a pond, it was more of a swamp. Macan's course didn't really incorporate the swamp. When the swamp was cleaned up and turned into a pond, current holes 12-15 were created to incorporate the newly created pond into the design. I don't recall when that was, though.

I'm not a fan of the rock treatment around the pond. It detracts from the type of old-fashion look and feel I'd like to restore at Kelowna. But it's unlikely the rocks will come out any time soon. I understand it was an expensive and labor intensive excercise putting them in place, not so long ago. The 12th hole will be immediately improved once some trees short-left of the green and the cart path there are removed.

The 13th hole is a fairly well-located par 3. We recently cleared all of the trees and underbrush except for three - two large pines and another specimen - behind the green, opening up a long view over part of the pond toward the 14th hole in the distance. It's not so claustrophobic down there, at the green, now and the look of the hole is improved. Bunkers and green surrounds at 13 will also get some treatment some time in the near future.

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