Salem Glen & Oak Valley (near Winston-Salem, N.C.) and GCA Get Together

[Ronald Montesano]

Since my time in Winston-Salem, in the mid-1980s, two new courses were built near Tanglewood Park in the Clemmons/Advance area, west of the city. Salem Glen is a Nicklaus design and Oak Valley is a Palmer production.

Does anyone in this hear asylum have experience with either course? I'm curious to know, as I'm setting up a February trip down and wonder about the two courses. Thank you in advance

THREADITOR'S NOTE: APOLOGIES FOR TUTTI-FRUTTI AND ALL CAPS, BUT WANTED TO GET YOUR ATTENTION~We are going to attempt to get Winston/Charlotte/anyone in NC who wants to get together some place for a beverage/whatever when we come down in February. PM me if you are interested.

[Cory Lewis]

I played Oak Valley this year.  All I can really say about it is that I had to look it up to confirm I had actually played it.  Fairly benign course, decent layout, not much in the way of excitement.   Tanglewood would be a much better option or Bryan Park in Greensboro.

[Ronald Montesano]

The website itself is pretty bland. No course tour, no scorecard. That's unforgivable if you want outside play.

[hhuffines]

Check out Deep Springs CC in Stoneville, NC.  I enjoyed it more than Oak Valley. 

[Ronald Montesano]

Stoneville might be too far off our itinerary. Thanks for the suggestion, though. What didn't you like about Oak Valley? Did you play Salem Glen?

[Tom Fagerli]

I have played them both several times. They are both fine. Nothing outstanding but fine. oak Valley has some good holes. However houses all around but not too close. On several holes I aim at back porches or stairs! Bunkers are usually horrible. They are also proud of it price wise IMO. Golf in our area is cheap most places.
Salem Glen is much improved. They had some issues but back on track. The pro, Daniel Byrd, is a great guy.
Neither course will make you gush. You will enjoy your rounds though.

[Ronald Montesano]

Thanks, Tom. If you had to choose one, which would it be? I think we will play Tanglewood and the Glen/Valley victor during our 36-hole day.

[Tom Fagerli]

Then do Oak Valley as closer. Have you called Bermuda Run? They will let you play the original course I would guess. You need to play Pine Brook also as the greens are a hoot. You can Golf Now it. Also, if you have time, drive to Mt Airy and play Cross Creek. They're on Golf Now. Well worth the $37!
Where you going to play besides Tanglewood?

[Ronald Montesano]

If all goes well, we'll do a 1-2-2-1 and play Oak Hollow on Saturday, Tanglewood Champs and Salem/Oak on Sunday, possible two more Advance courses on Monday and either Winston Lake or Reynolds Park on Tuesday, on our way back north.

Here's another trio of questions:

Bermuda Run original or Bermuda Run new (if we can get on)?

Tanglewood Players course or Salem Glen?

Winston Lake or Reynolds Park?

[Tom Fagerli]

BRCC original. The West course not worth it.
I would the Reynolds course at Tanglewood- that's the name I know! I keep hearing condition issues but haven't  played it in many years. Two quite different nines- front parkland back hilly and tight. I would play Salem Glen. From the front nine hole 6 at Tanglewood Reynolds you are very near Salem Glen but to drive there you have to go around the world unless the back gate is open! I would try BRCC on Monday. Sadly I don't know the pro there anymore.
I would play Reynolds Park before Winston Lake. The guys at Reynolds Park are friends so biased but WL can get claustraphobic and several blind shots if haven't played before.
If you are looking to head North immediately after play then again consider Pine Brook (Ellis Maples) as it is right off Hiway 52 or Pilot Knob in Pilot Mtn. Short course but fun and always in perfect shape. It is right off 52 also.
All that said, you will enjoy all the courses. Nothing design noteworthy at any of them but solid fun golf at reasonable prices. 

[Ronald Montesano]

Do you know Byrd personally? Your recommendation carries a lot of weight for me.

[Tom Fagerli]

Yes Daniel was an assistant at Pine Brook when I was a member there and I have stayed in touch with him since. Wonderful young man, fine wife and family.
As your trip nears I can recommend dining options depending on where you are staying. I don't understand why the Triad is not marketed as a golf destination as lots of golf, lodging, food, and cheap golf too! Back in the 80s Tanglewood would have more Ohio plates than NC in the parking lot!

[Ronald Montesano]

Are you still there? We will need a fourth for our rounds and you are welcome to join us.

[Tom Fagerli]

Yes, I am living in the metropolis of Yadkinville. I may be up to a few rounds but no 36 hole days for me! My back is shot and bunting it around from the white tees is all I can do and I have to ride! Downhill fast after turning 50! Golf is still fun though. I just laugh at my ineptitude.

[Will Spivey]

Ronald,

As a 20 year resident of Winston-Salem, here's my 2 cents.

I prefer Salem Glen to Oak Valley.  While there are a couple very poor holes, for the most part I find it an enjoyable course, without too much housing intruding on play (though one hole literally plays through the back yards of houses on both sides -- No. 9?  Really awful).  in that part of town, Bermuda Run original is worth playing.

I second the recommendation of Pine Brook.  I was a member there for a few years, and I think it's a fun track, with some really great holes (#2, 6, 9, 18) -- I think it's underrated.  I am not a fan of Reynolds Park, at all.  I would play the Champions course 2x before playing Reynolds.  If you're looking for variety you may want to consider Rock Barn, just west of Winston-Salem.  I haven't played it in many years, but I always enjoyed it. 

Oak Hollow in High Point (there was just a recent thread on it) in High Point is worth the 25 minute drive to see an early Pete Dye design.    Bryan Park Champions Course in NE Greensboro (close to an hour from Winston) is also very solid. 

PM if you'd like any more info on the area.

[Tom Fagerli]

Ronald,

As a 20 year resident of Winston-Salem, here's my 2 cents.

I prefer Salem Glen to Oak Valley.  While there are a couple very poor holes, for the most part I find it an enjoyable course, without too much housing intruding on play (though one hole literally plays through the back yards of houses on both sides -- No. 9?  Really awful).  in that part of town, Bermuda Run original is worth playing.

I second the recommendation of Pine Brook.  I was a member there for a few years, and I think it's a fun track, with some really great holes (#2, 6, 9, 18) -- I think it's underrated.  I am not a fan of Reynolds Park, at all.  I would play the Champions course 2x before playing Reynolds.  If you're looking for variety you may want to consider Rock Barn, just west of Winston-Salem.  I haven't played it in many years, but I always enjoyed it. 

Oak Hollow in High Point (there was just a recent thread on it) in High Point is worth the 25 minute drive to see an early Pete Dye design.    Bryan Park Champions Course in NE Greensboro (close to an hour from Winston) is also very solid. 


That ninth hole at Salem Glen is bad as is the 12th the par three that is just shoehorned in there. never played it when the pin not on the front. I agree that Bryan Park worth the trip. I actually like both courses there.
PM if you'd like any more info on the area.

[Bill Hoyle]

I came a little late to the discussion, but as a 11 year resident I can affirm some of the suggestions already made. Condition is the unknowable with your recommendations.  None of these courses have deep pockets, several are in bankruptcy and the maintenance budgets have suffered. 
I agree that the Reynolds course is well worth playing at Tanglewood and is too often overlooked for the Championship course.  It is hilly and from the back tees offers plenty of challenge and fun.  Personally I think Oak Valley is superior in design to Salem Glen.  Salem has an inordinate number of "grip and rip" holes without regard to shotmaking. There is a great deal of driver/wedge or short iron play there while significantly wider club selections are required at Oak Valley.  It isn't that Salem Glen isn't fun, and on a golf trip you might want an afternoon of free swinging. There are too many houses on both courses.   
If you have affection and connection with Pine Brook, a return for sentimental reasons makes sense, but for golf, I would suggest the drive over to Bryan Park, north of Greensboro.  The Champions course is a great track, IMHO, superior to all mentioned above and the Players course is very, very good. 
If you are a Pete Dye fan, the Oak Hollow course in High Point has some good holes on it, but some evident problems as well.  Fans of early design would enjoy Reynolds Park, a greatly underfunded Muni which is much more fun to play than Winston Lake.  I don't know how much of the Perry Maxwell course is still in play.
Bermuda Run's East Course is the "old" 18.  The West course has 9 holes across NC Highway 801 that only function as backyards to golf homes.  I don't like anything about it.
One course you might want to consider is Hale Irwin's Meadowlands course just outside Winston-Salem.  It has been recently been overbuilt as well, but there are some really good holes on it.
I hope you have a great time here in our neck of the woods.
Bill Hoyle

[Ronald Montesano]

THREADITOR'S NOTE: APOLOGIES FOR TUTTI-FRUTTI AND ALL CAPS, BUT WANTED TO GET YOUR ATTENTION~We are going to attempt to get Winston/Charlotte/anyone in NC who wants to get together some place for a beverage/whatever when we come down in February. PM me if you are interested.

[Jonathan Mallard]

Oak Hollow was the site of pub links qualifying the first year after it opened. I thought it was designed by M. C. Escher. 16 holes are downhill.

[Ronald Montesano]

Jonathan, that's a quote of the century...M.C. Escher and Sons Golf Course Architecture and Disjointment, LLC.

[Matt Bosela]

Ron - I've played a few of the courses you mention.  The championship course at Tanglewood was strong and a great value back when I played.  We played two rounds there and one on the shorter Reynolds course.  I'd recommend the same split for your trip.

Salem Glen was decent but nothing memorable - I think Glen Day had something to do with the design along with some of Nicklaus' people.  I also remember another average course from our trip, Meadowlands, a Hale Irwin design.  Tanglewood championship was the best of the four by far IMHO.

[Ronald Montesano]

Thanks, Matt. As most folks on this site know, I'd drive a thousand miles to play a Glen Day course. To have the chance to also play a Hale Irwin course...I'm shaking and nearly tearing up.

Tanglewood will be a homecoming for me. I played a good bit there while in college (most of the others didn't exist then.)

[Tim Gavrich]

We played a tournament at Meadowlands one year in college and I remember it being nice, with good movement throughout the course. But Tanglewood--Champ is way better.

Perhaps even more important than the golf, though: what barbecue joints are you hitting up?

[Tom Fagerli]

We played a tournament at Meadowlands one year in college and I remember it being nice, with good movement throughout the course. But Tanglewood--Champ is way better.

Perhaps even more important than the golf, though: what barbecue joints are you hitting up?

Why are you starting an argument on Christmas!?     A discussion of NC BBQ could go on forever! I am in for getting together.
I had forgotten about Meadowlands- old age moment. IMO it is the best of the local daily fee operations. Really great before they built houses out there.