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Greg Holland

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Restoration of Mid Pines
« Reply #100 on: September 10, 2013, 08:46:26 AM »
played in tournament at Mid Pines last weekend.  Everyone in the group I talked to loved the restoration.  The greens -- being brand new -- were very difficult to read and judge speed.  The greens should continue to improve, as should the course as it matures.  Local rule to dinstinguish bunkers and waste areas was only a bunker with sand completely surrounded by grass was a bunker/hazard.  Otherwise, waste area and you could ground club, etc.  The tree removal with the restoration is more dramatic than the photos show, and really opened up the course in spots.  I really liked the look and feel of the course, and look forward to returning soon.  

Interestingly, No. 4, which I and most on this site love, was lambasted my many of my playing partners (particularly the low handicappers).  One single digit said he hated the hole, and I responded the architectectural geeks and gurus often say it is the best hole on the course.  They asked why, and I tried to explain the options -- and he had demonstrated it with uncertainty off the tee, saying he knew he should not hit driver, etc, etc., and the difficulty of the pitch.  He ultimately acknowledged that he hated it because it "ate his lunch" every time he plays it.  He parred it that day, and said it was his first par ever in over 10 years of playing it.    
« Last Edit: September 10, 2013, 08:49:04 AM by Greg Holland »

Jason Thurman

  • Karma: +1/-0
Re: Restoration of Mid Pines
« Reply #101 on: September 23, 2013, 11:48:10 PM »
I'll be in Raleigh next Friday for work. I'm flying in Thursday morning and won't be leaving until Saturday afternoon. Hoping to get down to Pinehurst/Southern Pines at least one of the two days (if not both) and see some of the courses I missed on my last visit.

Anyone in the area interested in meeting up at Mid Pines Thursday afternoon or Saturday morning?
"There will always be haters. That’s just the way it is. Hating dudes marry hating women and have hating ass kids." - Evan Turner

Some of y'all have never been called out in bold green font and it really shows.

Roger Wolfe

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Restoration of Mid Pines
« Reply #102 on: September 26, 2013, 07:22:50 PM »
I could play Mid Pines and Southern Pines every day on a golf trip in Pinehurst and be 100% satisfied.

I also love #2 but it is cost/hassle prohibitive
I like Pine Needles very much
I like Dormie because it is so remote and unique

I lump all of the others together as 2nd tier compared to one's mentioned above...

Andy Stamm

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Restoration of Mid Pines
« Reply #103 on: September 27, 2013, 12:34:21 PM »
FYI, I heard that they are going to overseed both Pine Needles and Mid Pines. I'd hoped that the influence from #2 to Mid Pines would included not overseeding, but I guess not.

Daryl David

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Restoration of Mid Pines
« Reply #104 on: September 27, 2013, 03:22:39 PM »
FYI, I heard that they are going to overseed both Pine Needles and Mid Pines. I'd hoped that the influence from #2 to Mid Pines would included not overseeding, but I guess not.

Any idea when they would do the overseed?

Jerry Kluger

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Restoration of Mid Pines
« Reply #105 on: September 27, 2013, 03:31:35 PM »
I played Pine Needles last fall after overseeding and it was soaking wet and really ruined the experience.  I hope they pass on the idea at Mid Pines.

Andy Stamm

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Restoration of Mid Pines
« Reply #106 on: September 27, 2013, 03:36:41 PM »
The dates given are 10/10-10/30. That's for both courses, and I have no idea as far as more detail than that. Overseeding won't cause any closures on either course.

Steve Kline

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Restoration of Mid Pines
« Reply #107 on: October 11, 2013, 06:30:13 AM »
I've played 10 or so rounds at Mid Pines over the last 25 years. Yesterday was my first round there in a number of years. The renovation work has dramatically improved the course from a visual perspective. Like #2, Mid Pines used to be wall to wall green, which meant it lacked texture. Now, with the removal of rough and the addition of sandy areas, the course provides a lot of visual interest. The course still retains all the charm and old Donald Ross feel. If they get it playing firm and fast it will be able an real treat to play. With firmer approaches you would have the option of running the ball up the slopes of the false fronts, which are present on most greens. As it is, the course is immensely enjoyable and one I would enjoy playing frequently.

Jason Thurman

  • Karma: +1/-0
Re: Restoration of Mid Pines
« Reply #108 on: October 11, 2013, 07:22:07 AM »
Steve, I basically agree with you word for word. I played it last week.

Is it Mid Pines that has always had drainage issues, or Pine Needles? I know one of the courses has been considered a bit swampy and prone to playing soft since Ross' time.

I played Mid Pines a week ago and Pine Needles a year ago. While I prefer Pine Needles slightly as a course, Mid Pines is certainly the more visually stunning one today. They really complement each other beautifully now. Mid Pines was a delight and certainly would be a great members' course to play on a daily basis. My only complaint was its softness through the fairways (the new greens are plenty firm).
"There will always be haters. That’s just the way it is. Hating dudes marry hating women and have hating ass kids." - Evan Turner

Some of y'all have never been called out in bold green font and it really shows.

Andy Stamm

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Restoration of Mid Pines
« Reply #109 on: October 11, 2013, 11:17:18 AM »
Jason,

It's Mid Pines that you're thinking of. But I think the swampy area is limited to the low areas of 2 and 3 especially as well as 5 and maybe 1 and 4. Anyway, just that one area of the course and just the low areas on those holes. The greens are all elevated and are fine. The fairway 2 and rough in the valley of 3 do tend to be pretty bad though.

Matthew Sander

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Restoration of Mid Pines
« Reply #110 on: October 11, 2013, 11:21:54 AM »
Jason,

It's Mid Pines that you're thinking of. But I think the swampy area is limited to the low areas of 2 and 3 especially as well as 5 and maybe 1 and 4. Anyway, just that one area of the course and just the low areas on those holes. The greens are all elevated and are fine. The fairway 2 and rough in the valley of 3 do tend to be pretty bad though.

If I recall correctly, the rough to the right of #3 fairway was marked as hazard, which was a bit awkward.

Andy Stamm

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Restoration of Mid Pines
« Reply #111 on: October 11, 2013, 11:32:27 AM »
Matthew,

Yes, I'm sure that's right. That area gets very swampy and is very much in play (unlike, in theory, the swampy area on 2). There's no real standing water over there, so its being marked as a hazard is questionable. But, it's always (from my experience) soaked and gets thick with trees, underbrush, etc. very quickly. I'm sure it sees a lot of action because from the tee it looks like there's more room there, and, well, missing right is common. So, I guess staking it as a hazard is the best of bad options.

The other thing is that at least the right half of that fairway is usually soaked, not just the hazard area. That little corner is a real trouble area, and I don't know what options there are. That tee ball is horrid in my opinion. There's trouble on both sides and a long carry for casual golfers. I bet that tee shot alone is responsible for a great many golfers taking some generous relief just to finish the hole, which is very unlike the best parts of the course.

Matthew Sander

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Restoration of Mid Pines
« Reply #112 on: October 11, 2013, 11:38:11 AM »
Matthew,

Yes, I'm sure that's right. That area gets very swampy and is very much in play (unlike, in theory, the swampy area on 2). There's no real standing water over there, so its being marked as a hazard is questionable. But, it's always (from my experience) soaked and gets thick with trees, underbrush, etc. very quickly. I'm sure it sees a lot of action because from the tee it looks like there's more room there, and, well, missing right is common. So, I guess staking it as a hazard is the best of bad options.

The other thing is that at least the right half of that fairway is usually soaked, not just the hazard area. That little corner is a real trouble area, and I don't know what options there are. That tee ball is horrid in my opinion. There's trouble on both sides and a long carry for casual golfers. I bet that tee shot alone is responsible for a great many golfers taking some generous relief just to finish the hole, which is very unlike the best parts of the course.

Well said. It was the only hole on the course that I didn't care for at all. In addition to what you said above, that suspended pond in front of the tees blocks the view of the landing area, so that awkward hazard is invisible and incredibly close to the line of play. I hit a really good drive there that I assumed was dead center or even slightly left of center. As it turned out, I was only a yard or two away from the hazard line.

Andy Stamm

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Restoration of Mid Pines
« Reply #113 on: October 11, 2013, 11:43:14 AM »
I agree, and the pond is an eyesore to boot! The tee shot has to be played way left of what the line seems like visually. Unless you're a fairly long hitter, you can't reach the trouble left, so the safe play is to aim off in the trees left. Hit a good one, and you're probably in the center of the fairway.

Jay Mickle

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Restoration of Mid Pines
« Reply #114 on: October 11, 2013, 09:31:15 PM »
I unexpectedly met up with Kyle Franz the other night at Mid Pines on a  brief return from Brazil where he is working with Gil Hanse. We discussed a number of topics of which #3 was among them. He indicated that he has presented a Phase 2 of the project which will address both the unsightly pond and the drainage issues in the fairway. I believe that this was the only par 4 or longer fairway not to be reseeded. Possibly in anticipation of future changes.
When, what and how the hole might change are apparently still up in the air but certainly the need for change has not gone unnoticed.
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David_Madison

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Restoration of Mid Pines
« Reply #115 on: October 12, 2013, 07:48:19 PM »
Played there yesterday. It's rained a bunch over the past week, but we got plenty of roll on pretty much the entire course except #3.

One of the features I found especially interesting was that the best lines from the fairways into the greens typically were on the high sides of those holes with tilted fairways. That made it especially challenging to place drives that left clear, straightforward shots into the greens. And then coming into the greens from odd angles was really difficult, as the greens were very firm and had lots of side contour that rejected shots.. So, even though the fairways are plenty wide, there's still a strong demand on accurate driving if you are going to score well.

Tom Fagerli

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Restoration of Mid Pines
« Reply #116 on: October 13, 2013, 08:22:47 AM »
I agree that No3 would be improved greatly by drainage work however the hazard on the right is the potential penalty you face for trying to drive on the line with the flattest lie, most open line to a very difficult green. I wish I could get some more roll down that slope off the tee. It is there to propel your ball down the hill, ideally. This hole eats my lunch regularly however after it is No 4 a most delightful short par four so hope springs anew on that tee!

Andy Stamm

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Restoration of Mid Pines
« Reply #117 on: October 15, 2013, 01:55:37 PM »
Played there yesterday. It's rained a bunch over the past week, but we got plenty of roll on pretty much the entire course except #3.

One of the features I found especially interesting was that the best lines from the fairways into the greens typically were on the high sides of those holes with tilted fairways. That made it especially challenging to place drives that left clear, straightforward shots into the greens. And then coming into the greens from odd angles was really difficult, as the greens were very firm and had lots of side contour that rejected shots.. So, even though the fairways are plenty wide, there's still a strong demand on accurate driving if you are going to score well.

Which holes are you thinking of? I can think of 4 and on hole I really like the feature. 12 is the opposite where the slope pushes you toward the best angle, in my opinion. I can't think of others with a tone of slope to the fairways though.

BCowan

Re: Restoration of Mid Pines
« Reply #118 on: November 25, 2013, 10:28:29 PM »
Played Mid Pines on Sat. and the restoration was amazing.  The trees cut down, the firmness of the greens, and the bunkering.  Number 3 looked like they have tried to do drainage work and more needs to be done with drainage on the course.  What a polished Gem!  I can't think of a course that is more fun than MP!!!!  The new firm greens have made coming in on the right angles important.

Zack Molnar

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Restoration of Mid Pines
« Reply #119 on: February 08, 2014, 02:28:37 PM »
Im going down to pinehurst in two weeks and am trying to decide between mid-pines and pine needles as a morning round before heading to dormie in the afternoon. For those who have played mid-pines post-renovation, would you choose that over pine needles?

Tom_Doak

  • Karma: +2/-1
Re: Restoration of Mid Pines
« Reply #120 on: February 08, 2014, 02:36:46 PM »
I have only seen Pine Needles once and it was quite a while ago, but I was definitely more impressed with Mid Pines.

Rees Milikin

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Restoration of Mid Pines
« Reply #121 on: February 08, 2014, 02:51:46 PM »
Im going down to pinehurst in two weeks and am trying to decide between mid-pines and pine needles as a morning round before heading to dormie in the afternoon. For those who have played mid-pines post-renovation, would you choose that over pine needles?

What day are you playing b/c I have a tee time for both courses on the 20th.

Andy Stamm

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Restoration of Mid Pines
« Reply #122 on: February 08, 2014, 02:52:41 PM »
Im going down to pinehurst in two weeks and am trying to decide between mid-pines and pine needles as a morning round before heading to dormie in the afternoon. For those who have played mid-pines post-renovation, would you choose that over pine needles?

Absolutely Mid Pines. Since the recent work it's a no brainer. Even before I preferred Mid Pines for everything but the maintenance. But now the maintenance is good and the houses and rough on Pine Needles really hurt it in comparison to Mid Pines.

Jason Thurman

  • Karma: +1/-0
Re: Restoration of Mid Pines
« Reply #123 on: February 08, 2014, 02:59:34 PM »
Zack, I think it depends on what you're looking for. Pine Needles is certainly the tougher, championship-caliber course. For a good player like you, it'll be a good, fun challenge. I also think it has more memorable holes overall. Mid Pines is really nice, but I don't find it quite as dramatic and it can't match the "broad shouldered" feeling of Pine Needles.

They're both very good, but I rank Pine Needles considerably better. Mid Pines has the better presentation since the renovation, but you'll get to see something similar at Dormie so I'm not sure how big a factor that should be in your decision. I think it just comes down to whether you feel like playing a "strong" course or a "charming" course. I'd also pay attention to weather, as Pine Needles drains quite a bit better.
"There will always be haters. That’s just the way it is. Hating dudes marry hating women and have hating ass kids." - Evan Turner

Some of y'all have never been called out in bold green font and it really shows.

John Kavanaugh

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Restoration of Mid Pines
« Reply #124 on: February 08, 2014, 03:04:48 PM »
Not that it matters but I thought Mid Pines was more affordable. I thought Pine Needles was hurt by the changes made trying to make it a championship course. Which it is not, for men that is.

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