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Tom Fagerli

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Re: Restoration of Mid Pines
« Reply #25 on: December 28, 2012, 07:25:03 AM »
Thanks Andy! Looking good out there. Supposed to play there tomorrow but weather iffy. After seeing these photos I am going to ride out there to take a look for myself.

Andy Stamm

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Re: Restoration of Mid Pines
« Reply #26 on: December 28, 2012, 02:27:07 PM »
Thanks Andy! Looking good out there. Supposed to play there tomorrow but weather iffy. After seeing these photos I am going to ride out there to take a look for myself.

If you're not playing, head straight to six. You can see everything except 10 right there. 6, 16, and 17 look great, much better than I captured in the pics.

Kyle Franz

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Re: Restoration of Mid Pines
« Reply #27 on: December 29, 2012, 08:32:40 AM »
It never ceases to amaze me how quickly news travels on golfclubatlas. Nice to hear that people are excited about the restoration work underway at Mid Pines. I’ve been meaning to post for a few days but have been quite busy out here. Great pics Andy. If you, or anyone else, stops by the course feel free to track me down. In addition to the Pilot article, Lee Pace (who wrote the recent Pinehurst Restoration book) also did a feature for Pinestraw Magazine that has more information on the design aspects if anyone is interested.
 
I’ve been lucky to have been a part of several neat restorations (Pinehurst, Pasatiempo, Cal Club, Waverley) but the opportunity here at Mid Pines is extremely exciting for me. Mid Pines became my golf “home away from home” while working on the Pinehurst #2 restoration. Because of the quality of the green complexes it became the course in the area I most hoped to work with someday. It also became an exciting side project at the Tufts Archives while researching material for #2. So it’s a dream come true to be back in Pinehurst 2 years later working once again in the Ross Sand Hills Style.

Just to expand on the key elements of the restoration from the Pilot article and hopefully answer a couple of the questions above, we hope to:

- Expand the fairways out to their original margins to re-establish Ross’s strategic options and playing angles. Hopefully we’ll also improve playability by removing select areas of trees that have encroached over the past 80 years. The entire plan was developed using a 1939 aerial photo and a number of supporting air and ground shots from 1921 onwards through the 40’s.

- Restore the original bunker style and detailing using Ross’s work at Mid Pines and in the Sand Hills region in the 1930’s as the basic template.

- Restore the sandy hardpan/wiregrass areas outside the maintained turf limits. Ross always intended Mid Pines to be a slightly shorter/tighter course than #2 so the open sandy areas will not be quite as expansive as those at Pinehurst. But there will still be plenty of them. Hopefully Mid Pines will have a nice vibe of its own. 

- We will also be expanding the green edges back out to their original margins to reestablish lost Ross hole locations. As is common among older courses (particularly with Bermuda) many of the greens margins have shrunk 5-10 feet over time resulting in the loss of key hole locations.

- Steve had a great question on the greens restorations in general. Just to expand on the brief summary in the article we are doing extremely little to the greens. I’m as big of a fan of these greens as anyone – it’s part of the reason why I wanted to do this project. In a perfect world we wouldn’t touch them at all. Unfortunately, however, a couple of Ross’s original greens have been redesigned by previous ownership groups so we will be restoring them as closely as possible to the originals.

We will also be doing some subtle work to small sections of a few greens to re-establish a few of Ross’s key hole locations that no longer exist -- but nothing extensive. For example the front of the 1st and 7th greens originally featured two of the better hole locations on the front nine. We will be restoring those as part of the greens work this summer.

Overall we hope to restore the look, feel, and shot making options that Ross intended. As mentioned if anyone is in town and wants to pop in to see the work let me know!

Cheers and Happy Holidays,
Kyle Franz


Sean_A

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Re: Restoration of Mid Pines
« Reply #28 on: December 29, 2012, 06:06:14 PM »
Craig

Do you know if the drainage issues on the low section of the property are going to be addressed?

I also note this sentence - hhhmmm.

“We’re not going to mess with the green contours except where there is too much slope,” Miller said.

Ciao
I don't know about the drainage - assuming you're referring particularly to the area around the 3rd and 5th fairways. Originally, the large pond on the 5th was wetland and probably helped the drainage from the 1st fairway across the 5th and 3rd. The pond, added sometime prior to the early 40s, might have clogged it all up. Screwing around with a drainage system formed naturally over centuries doesn't seem like a good idea generally.

The conversion of the greens to bermuda grass could be the reason for their concern over slope although I don't recall that many greens having contours that were all that severe.

The aerials of the type that assisted C&C with their work at #2 also exist for MP. The fairway widths ranged from 30-60 yards and either wrap around the fairway bunkers or run up close to their edges. On the 12th, e.g., the left fairway actually begins on the left side of the left fairway bunker. I hope they are also considering some tree cut-back along the fairway perimeters.


Craig

Thanks. 

Kyle

Are most of the fairways going to have sandy edges?  When the course was built, were the trees so close to the sandy areas?

Ciao
New plays planned for 2024: Nothing

Andy Stamm

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Re: Restoration of Mid Pines
« Reply #29 on: December 30, 2012, 02:17:50 AM »
Kyle,

Thanks for the great info and kind words. I should be back out there the 4-6th; I'll try to track you down.

What are the plans for the 8th hole? The tree removal looks great, by the way. I'm curious what's to become of the left bunkers. It looks like the back bunker will be integrated with open sand area, which is great. The day I took the photos the pin was back left, which is a great pin. Will that be pinnable with a faster green?

One of my favorite parts of Mid Pines, other than the greens, is the intimacy of the routing. I really like that there are only a few houses bordering the course, and I like the parallel fairways and the fact that there are number of places where several greens and tees are in close proximity. I can't wait for the work to be done as the whole place is just my speed.

Joe_Tucholski

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Re: Restoration of Mid Pines
« Reply #30 on: January 10, 2013, 06:44:26 PM »
I wanted to bring this thread back up as I played Mid Pines last week with Andy Stamm.  It was interesting to see the course during the restoration.  Some of the holes were completed or nearly completed and some of the holes were untouched.  The contrast in the work of the bunkers and just off the fairways was quite an aesthetic improvement.  I think when the work is done people will really be visually impressed with the new look.

I’d post photos but unfortunately I didn’t take many and none of the camera phone images I took do the work justice.

Chris Buie

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Re: Restoration of Mid Pines
« Reply #31 on: January 10, 2013, 06:54:51 PM »



Bruce Wellmon

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Re: Restoration of Mid Pines
« Reply #32 on: January 10, 2013, 07:16:12 PM »
Those are fantastic pics.
Kyle,
         I must admit that I have only played Mid Pines on one occasion on a cold winter day, one December years ago. Compared to Pine Needles, that weekend, Mid Pines didn't  seem to play as F&F as Pine Needles. It was rather wet. Did I just catch it on one of those days or is there a turf or drainage difference between the two courses even though they are so close?
         After seeing the pictures and reading your plan, I really need to revisit. When is the work to be completed?
          Thanks, Bruce

Tom Fagerli

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Re: Restoration of Mid Pines
« Reply #33 on: January 10, 2013, 07:36:46 PM »
MidPines has a low area that Needles does not and that may be the reason MP may not have been as fast. I will say that MP seems firmer and faster than it was so you need to get back. The greens are to be redone in April or May so hit it in Aug and it will be awesome.

Andy Stamm

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Re: Restoration of Mid Pines
« Reply #34 on: January 10, 2013, 10:31:23 PM »
When Joe and I were out, the 10th approach and green side were finished, and they looked great. Unfortunately my picture was terrible and not worth sharing. 5 was closed and the green site was undergoing a ton of work. There was some work being done to 9 and 11 as well.

The course was close M-W, and I think that will continue for awhile.

I also heard got some additional info that's from a good source, but I can't be certain is accurate. I heard the the tee on 7 is being pushed back, which would make a tough hole even tougher. And there was a lot tree work underway, and I heard that the removal would include "hundreds" of trees. I really hope that's true.

I'm really curious as to what will happen with 8 and 9.

I do think think Mid Pines is a bit wetter overall than Pine Needles. The greens are fine on both, but neither course is very firm now. I think part of the reason is that Mid Pines is generally more shaded.

Greg Holland

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Re: Restoration of Mid Pines
« Reply #35 on: January 10, 2013, 10:40:23 PM »
Where could they put the 7th tee -- I guess it could be on the other side of the path and right beside 16 green, but there isn't a lot of room is there?

Andy Stamm

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Re: Restoration of Mid Pines
« Reply #36 on: January 10, 2013, 11:21:34 PM »
Greg,

The idea was to remove a bunch of trees and move the tee basically straight back. It might have to move slightly to the left to be away from 16 green but not much I don't think.

Norbert P

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Re: Restoration of Mid Pines
« Reply #37 on: February 16, 2013, 10:01:00 PM »


Mid Pines 17th on Christmas day, 2012
"Golf is only meant to be a small part of one’s life, centering around health, relaxation and having fun with friends/family." R"C"M

Norbert P

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Re: Restoration of Mid Pines
« Reply #38 on: February 17, 2013, 06:17:52 PM »


Mid Pines 17th on Feb. 16th, 2013 near dark
"Golf is only meant to be a small part of one’s life, centering around health, relaxation and having fun with friends/family." R"C"M

Norbert P

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Re: Restoration of Mid Pines
« Reply #39 on: February 17, 2013, 06:46:48 PM »


Mid Pines 10th, Feb. 16th, 2013
"Golf is only meant to be a small part of one’s life, centering around health, relaxation and having fun with friends/family." R"C"M

Kevin Lynch

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Re: Restoration of Mid Pines
« Reply #40 on: February 17, 2013, 09:59:58 PM »
Slag - we weary travelers from Buffalo are familiar with these images during our weekend visit.  After 14 in the snow at Dormie yesterday, our Pine Needles / Mid Pines schedule was nixed today. 
Fortunately, Cory Lewis told us the snow missed Little River, so we squeezed in 18 (sunny & 38 degrees felt heavenly).   Breakfast at the Track, lunch with the Most Beloved Figure in Golf, and after-Dinner drinks at the Pine Tree helped salvage a potential lost day.

Chris Buie

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Re: Restoration of Mid Pines
« Reply #41 on: March 07, 2013, 10:25:30 PM »
Took a few photos today which some of you may find interesting. The photo quality is very poor but it will give you an idea what is going on.
It really is fantastic work and I'm certain the end result will be mesmerizing.

The first hole.


The approach to the first green.


The ~190 yard second.


Here's GCA's Mr. Bandoon in front of the tenth tee.


The approach to the 10th.


Note the mound with wire grass in the second bunker on eighteen.


Zack working his mechanical paint brush.
« Last Edit: March 07, 2013, 10:28:34 PM by Chris Buie »

Andy Stamm

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Re: Restoration of Mid Pines
« Reply #42 on: March 07, 2013, 10:53:24 PM »
Thanks, Chris.

It's coming along so nicely. I thought 1 was much better after the tree clearing. I'm not in love with the new elevated tee at 6, but I'm probably in the minority there. Any word on what's happening at 8? Other than clearing the trees behind the green, it hadn't been touched, but I'm very curious to see what happens there. I also thought 11 looked particularly good.

In the newsletter describing the changes, I read that Mid Pines is on 91 acres. Anyone know who accurate that is?

RJ_Daley

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Re: Restoration of Mid Pines
« Reply #43 on: March 07, 2013, 10:54:16 PM »
Wow, I can't believe I come on this website all the time, and didn't notice this thread until now.  ::) :-[

It is so uplifting to see these gents of Kyle's team have their chance to demonstrate their talents.  

No actual golf rounds were ruined or delayed, nor golf rules broken, in the taking of any photographs that may be displayed by the above forum user.

Joe_Tucholski

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Re: Restoration of Mid Pines
« Reply #44 on: March 08, 2013, 12:19:00 AM »
In the newsletter describing the changes, I read that Mid Pines is on 91 acres. Anyone know who accurate that is?

Certainly not on a 91 acre block of land.  Maybe 91 acres of playing area?  I couldn't get less than 100 acres, not including the range.


Chris Buie

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Re: Restoration of Mid Pines
« Reply #45 on: March 08, 2013, 06:25:53 AM »
Quote
Any word on what's happening at 8? Other than clearing the trees behind the green, it hadn't been touched, but I'm very curious to see what happens there.

Andy, here's a photo from behind the 8th green.


And here are some other photos for your consideration.

Another look at the first.


A fairway bunker on the fifth.


A greenside bunker on the fifth.


A fairway bunker on the sixth.


The seventh hole.


The twelfth. The intended challenge of the left hand side has been reinstated.

Thomas Dai

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Re: Restoration of Mid Pines
« Reply #46 on: March 08, 2013, 07:18:23 AM »
This looks fantastic. Lovely contouring/shaping around the greens and the fairway edges. Transfer the photos to black and white and it could be the 1920's (apart from the machinery).

All the best

hhuffines

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Re: Restoration of Mid Pines
« Reply #47 on: March 08, 2013, 07:30:01 AM »
Thanks for the photos!  Please keep them coming.  Hart

Jud_T

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Re: Restoration of Mid Pines
« Reply #48 on: March 08, 2013, 07:59:50 AM »
This place looks really good.  The bunker work appears top notch.  I can't believe I never played there in my several trips but it looks like it might have been worth the wait!
« Last Edit: March 08, 2013, 08:13:21 AM by Jud Tigerman »
Golf is a game. We play it. Somewhere along the way we took the fun out of it and charged a premium to be punished.- - Ron Sirak

Kevin Lynch

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Re: Restoration of Mid Pines
« Reply #49 on: March 08, 2013, 08:39:12 AM »
The 12th is probably my favorite Par 4 at Mid Pines.  The adjective I used the most during my visit was "graceful" as so many holes just "felt" perfect.

I never saw Mid Pines before the restoration work, but I really like what's being done.  One thing I noticed was that the waste areas were much softer than those at #2.  Is that just a function of time?  Will they settle and firm up like the similar areas across town?

Similarly, I'm not sure how many trees were removed, but I really liked views opened up on the first 4-5 holes as compared to Southern Pines.  I love the layout at Southern Pines, but would love some thinning to let me see more of the other holes throughout the round (especially in the 4-8 stretch).

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