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grandwazo

Re:Hawaii
« Reply #25 on: July 15, 2003, 10:39:14 PM »
Gentleman, thank you all for your responses.  

I spent the day with a noted golf architect, who I first learned about through GCA.  I am a total novice, with a true love of the game and GCA has helped me better understand the challenges faced by course architects and the clubs that employ them.  I had invited him to my home course for a preliminary interview for a renovation job we are contemplating on the North Shore of Long Island.  

It was a perfect day weather wise and as we played the course as part of our wide ranging discussions he said that his course design philosopy was based on offering each golfer a "voyage" or "journey" during which the golf course gradually opened itself to each player both visually and strategically maximizing what the land had to offer.  

To my surprise he said that he first truly understood this approach after already having been in the business for a few years, on the second tee at the Plantation Course at Kapalua.  He said that at that moment he realized that Coore and Crenshaw had taken what at first glance would appear to be a difficult piece of property and then perfectly suited a golf course to it that crystallized what he hoped to achieve.  After that statement I have no choice but to play the course, whether as a guest of the Ritz or as a visitor from the Four Seasons.  I'm going to leave that decision to my wife, it's her vacation too.  As a point of interest I have a friend that just spent his honeymoon visiting all the islands, playing many of the courses mentioned here and his second choice after the Plantation Course was the new Nicklaus course at the Four Seasons on the Big Island.  

The architect is Steve Smyers who was an absolute pleasure to spend the day with.  Ran's interview with Steve where he discussed the challenges of working a small piece of property and his willingness to provide playability for golfers both high and low handicappers, inspired me to contact him and I want to thank Ran and John for the wonderful forum and information base they have provided to all of us.  Steve drove up after attending the first day of the US Public Links Amateur being held at his Blue Heron Pines near AC and I know that given the opportunity he could take the 125 acres of our well maintained but non-descript golf course and turn it into something truly special that will far surpass our "competition" in the neighborhood.  He was a total gentleman and not once during the day did I feel I was "being sold".  It was all about the golf course and the potential held in the terrain we passed over.  I've played my course for the past twenty years and among friends discussed the "band aids" we would apply to upgrade our home course but Steve opened my eyes to what in fact could be done given the opportunity and what a waste of time and energy those band aids would be.   It will be interesting to see how the process plays out and I will gladly report on it to my fellow GCA'ers.  Our hope is to take what is basically a social activity based country club golf course and turn it into a true test of golf that will allow us to attract a new crop of members to sustain us into the future.  

I also have to say that I lost my Mom at the end of March and golf has been one of the things that has brought me the most comfort (along with my wife and kids).  My Mom got me started with golf and the year I won my Club Championship she walked every hole with me and she was pretty proud that day.  The last round I played with her will stay with me forever.  She loved her "home course" and I know that she would have loved to be a part of the work we are about to undertake.  

Reading the comments and byplay between all of you has been a lot of fun and extremely informative and I can sense that golf has helped you all to find inner peace from time to time.  I truly appreciate your willingness to share.  Only those that play and love the game will truly understand what I mean.

I know in previous posts I have listed a fair number of courses that not all may have the opportunity to play, and I know that I am truly lucky.  It may sound funny but in my mind when I have the opportunity to play one of these special places, the purity of the experience brings me closer to what I have lost.


Tommy_Naccarato

Re:Hawaii
« Reply #26 on: July 16, 2003, 12:40:40 AM »
GW,
Well Done Wazo, Well done!

Please check your Instant Message on top.


Forrest Richardson

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Hawaii
« Reply #27 on: July 16, 2003, 01:02:49 AM »
I am surprised (very) that Tom H. made special note of Wailea's Emerald and Gold (Maui), but not the Blue at Wailea. How "un-GCA-like" of this particular discussion group's comments.

The Blue Course at Wailea, designed by the "dean" of golf architects who've left their mark on Hawaii, Arthur Jack Snyder, is the most pure and honest of the three. Nothing manufactured, nothing tightened artifically — just wide fairways with gently rolling land and a few blind shots here and there.

Snyder built the Blue Course before anything — and I mean anything — was in West Maui. His thoughtful layout, in fact, is a very remarkable routing as it ascends and descends gracefully, but with character. In Hawaii context, the Blue Course has an ambiance that does not stoop to the lows of many other resort courses. It is a favorite among the members at Wailea for they know well it offers choices and intrigue beyond the hype of its better known greenish and off-yellowish cousins.

The Orange Course at Wailea was a jewell, unfortunately lost to RTJ2 so he could build the Emerald. But that's another story.
— Forrest Richardson, Golf Course Architect/ASGCA
    www.golfgroupltd.com
    www.golframes.com

Tommy_Naccarato

Re:Hawaii
« Reply #28 on: July 16, 2003, 04:55:23 AM »
Forrest, As I told both you and JAS, I very much enjoyed the Blue Course. Fun, not pretenticious, and very sporty. It also had some really interesting greens too. Much better then Kapalua-Bay, which was Palmer's

David Wigler

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Hawaii
« Reply #29 on: July 16, 2003, 07:30:48 AM »
Wazo,

Great post!!

A quick suggestion for you.  Go back a couple of pages and find the "Who are you guys" thread and add your info.  You will be amazed at the network of friends that can grow out of it.
And I took full blame then, and retain such now.  My utter ignorance in not trumpeting a course I have never seen remains inexcusable.
Tom Huckaby 2/24/04

THuckaby2

Re:Hawaii
« Reply #30 on: July 16, 2003, 09:06:05 AM »
Grandwazo - great post without a doubt.  You crystallized what golf means to most if not all of us here.  Well done.

Forrest - I didn't mention Wailea Blue course because I've never played it!  I stayed across the street from it though, and the holes I could see looked pretty darn good to me.  I played the Orange many years ago....

TH

Forrest Richardson

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Hawaii
« Reply #31 on: July 16, 2003, 09:14:51 AM »
You didn't play it! My God, man. I am comforted to know you played the Orange before it was eaten and spit out by the wonder of minds at work on the Emerald City and the Gold Brick Road. The Orange was a tight monster, but with lots of character. Interestingly, it only became tight after the kiawe trees received water from the irrigation — and were promptly never trimmed again — until they dropped their limbs on unsuspecting tourists. Jack always felt it needed thinning, but only managed to convince the club to take down a few trees. So, it simply became the opposite of the Blue in terms of elbow room.
— Forrest Richardson, Golf Course Architect/ASGCA
    www.golfgroupltd.com
    www.golframes.com

THuckaby2

Re:Hawaii
« Reply #32 on: July 16, 2003, 09:21:21 AM »
Forrest:

I was over there on a family trip.  I barely avoided castration playing Kapalua Plantation and I chose the Emerald for my one allowed round at Wailea because that was the only course on which I could get on early on the appointed golf day.  Luckily we played fast, so I took a quick cart tour of the Gold because it was right there.  I had already seen a lot of the Blue staying across the street as we did.

Is that better?   :)

Jonathan's right.  At least in Hawaii, man does not live by golf alone.

I don't plan to see anything but golf courses in Scotland, beginning Friday.   ;)

TH

Forrest Richardson

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Hawaii
« Reply #33 on: July 16, 2003, 09:33:58 AM »
I hate playing any course after castration. Always allow two weeks before using longer irons.
— Forrest Richardson, Golf Course Architect/ASGCA
    www.golfgroupltd.com
    www.golframes.com

THuckaby2

Re:Hawaii
« Reply #34 on: July 16, 2003, 09:41:14 AM »
 ;D ;D ;D

Lucky I haven't had to test this - yet - though it has been close.  But I'm leaving for 10 days of golf with the college buddies tomorrow, and if the frosty state on the homefront is any indication, I may well get to test your theories upon my return.   :'(

TH

grandwazo

Re:Hawaii
« Reply #35 on: July 16, 2003, 10:16:54 AM »
Same here....about to leave for 7 days in Ireland with 3 friends and everytime I make the mistake of telling someone about it in front of my wife you would think that I was going away for a month and asking her to go into work for me while I'm away.  Won't stop me though, just a very small price to pay.

Forrest Richardson

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Hawaii
« Reply #36 on: July 16, 2003, 10:19:17 AM »
I shall see you in Ireland beginning 25th July and, well, I'll be there for what will seem like a million years if I do it right this time.
— Forrest Richardson, Golf Course Architect/ASGCA
    www.golfgroupltd.com
    www.golframes.com

THuckaby2

Re:Hawaii
« Reply #37 on: July 16, 2003, 10:33:56 AM »
Grandwazo, your wife and mine must be kindred spirits or cousins or something.  Or maybe all wives are just this way.  I haven't dared mention the "S" word for months, and it is all tip-toes and eggshells this week.

Ahhhhh, Ireland... as Rich Goodale moved "home" to Scotland, if I was as fortunate and/or daring as he, that would be where I move to... Have a great time, gentlemen!

TH

grandwazo

Re:Hawaii
« Reply #38 on: July 16, 2003, 10:42:48 AM »
Forrest,
My first trip to Ireland, words cannot describe the anticipation.  If it's even half the experience I had in Scotland a couple of years ago, the cloud I'll be on will last me for a long time to come.
On the 24th & 25th we'll be at Royal County Down, the 26th Portomonock, the 27th Old Head and then Killeen, the 28th Waterville, the 29th Ballybunion (Old & New) and the 30th, Doonbeg.  Let me know if we overlap, I'd love to buy you a drink, I've played a few of your courses in Arizona and respect your work very much.  
Jeff

Mike Benham

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Hawaii
« Reply #39 on: July 16, 2003, 10:45:39 AM »
...  I haven't dared mention the "S" word for months, and it is all tip-toes and eggshells this week.

Hmmm ... 3 letters?    ;)
« Last Edit: July 16, 2003, 10:55:19 AM by Mike Benham »
"... and I liked the guy ..."

Scott_Burroughs

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Hawaii
« Reply #40 on: July 16, 2003, 10:46:52 AM »
Grandwazo, your wife and mine must be kindred spirits or cousins or something.  Or maybe all wives are just this way.  

They're all that way.  The only two-day club event I can play in this year (and the best), the Ryder Cup this weekend, didn't go over well, even though I've played in more in the past.  And I'm missing at least 3 other one-day club events.  Doesn't matter.  I'm also probably going to play quite a bit fewer new courses this year than last, but that also doesn't matter.


Mike,

I thought he meant "Scotland".
« Last Edit: July 16, 2003, 10:47:30 AM by Scott_Burroughs »

THuckaby2

Re:Hawaii
« Reply #41 on: July 16, 2003, 10:56:00 AM »
Scott:

Yep, "Scotland".  Damn, I said it!  Whew... she's not in earshot, thank God.... As for the three-letter "S" word, I did mention how frosty things are on the homefront, didn't I?   :'(

And oh yes, wives could care less what we miss, without a doubt.  I tried the "I could play every day if I wasn't so family oriented" tack a couple times and it went over like the proverbial lead zeppelin....

Which left me dazed and confused.   ;)

TH
« Last Edit: July 16, 2003, 10:58:01 AM by Tom Huckaby »

Scott_Burroughs

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Hawaii
« Reply #42 on: July 16, 2003, 11:15:16 AM »
As for the three-letter "S" word, I did mention how frosty things are on the homefront, didn't I?   :'(

That's more than I want to know, really. ::)

As for the 'play every day angle', pray for at least one of your kids to get interested in golf (without pushing too hard, of course).  I know I do.

I've dreamt of this situation many a time:

"Honey, you and the girls need to get out of this house!  Go play golf with them."

"Do I have to?"  (Holding back smirk)

"Yes."

"If you insist."   (Grinning out the door).

THuckaby2

Re:Hawaii
« Reply #43 on: July 16, 2003, 11:20:23 AM »
That is my plan as well, Scott.

So far it's not working.  The kids equate golf to me being gone, and since they still seem to like me, that's a bad thing.  So golf is a four-letter word to them, and although we have had many range sessions, and my 8-year old girl has completed one 9-hole par three round, a passion for the game seems to be noticeably absent for them.

Here's hoping, though....

TH

Mike Benham

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Hawaii
« Reply #44 on: July 16, 2003, 11:56:16 AM »
As for the 'play every day angle', pray for at least one of your kids to get interested in golf (without pushing too hard, of course).  I know I do.

Scott -

As Tom can attest to, that dream, specifically here in NorCal, is expensive for us non-Country Club goflers.

My 2 teenage boys will go play golf with me at the drop of the Titleist hat.  On weekends, even at a local muni, we are easily over $ 100 for the threesom.  On weekdays, twilight rates for boys are $ 10 and $ 20 for me ... so we are still talking $ 50 for a partial round.

God forbid I take them to Hawaii for a week ...

"... and I liked the guy ..."

Scott_Burroughs

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Hawaii
« Reply #45 on: July 16, 2003, 12:45:18 PM »
Mike,

Sounds like time to upgrade that Downtown membership!   ;D