Hawaii

[grandwazo]

It's a long way away, but I'm going to Hawaii next May for a business "conference" being held at the Fairmont Orchid.  The hotel offers the Francis H.'II Brown north and south golf courses....has anyone played either and would you recommend them?  What other courses on the Big Island of Hawaii would anyone recommend?  After 4 days on Hawaii I'm thinking about moving over to Maui, having read the Plantation course review on GCA it would seem that the Ritz Carlton is the place to stay, but I'm told the Wailea area is better weather wise.  Are there any courses in this area that measure up to the Plantation course?
Regards
Jeff

[Tommy_Naccarato]

Not even close.

I'm not sure what you mean about the weather either. The wind is going to be blowing where ever you go, and just like Hawaii, it can be completely clear outside, and your still going to fill rain or percepitation from some sort of quick moving set of clouds.

Just stay at Kapalua, and forget everything that is going on in the outside world.

[grandwazo]

Thanks Tommy.  

[B. Mogg]

You may also want to consider Maui Lani for a cheaper experience than Plantation Course (doesnt sound like that is an issue for you though). Near the airport and much more reasonable prices and a pretty good track to boot with a few interesting dunesland holes you won't see anywhere else in Hawaii.

Cheers,
Brett

[DTaylor18]

Hualalai was a blast on the Big Island.  Black lava everywhere and a lot of fun to play.  Beautiful scenery too, but tat's alost everyhwere in Hawaii.  I didn't play Mana Kea, but was told that was great.  

[David Wigler]

The Plantation course is the best!!  On the Big Island, Mauna Kea is pretty good but skip the 10th hole (It may be the worst hole ever built).

One last suggestion: 10 minutes from Kapalua is the town of Lahina.  Take the ferry (A wonderful 45 minute boat ride) to Lanai.  Have one of the best meals you will ever have at either the Lodge at Keole (Must have a jacket) or Manele Bay and the play the course at Manele Bay (My opinion is that it is better than Mauna Kea and second to Kapalua (Have not played any of the Prince courses).

[DTaylor18]

David is on the money on that one, Manele Bay is incredible, and the resorts and food were great.  I played the Prince course and did not enjoy it as much.  

[JakaB]

Are there any groups of men in the world that go to Hawaii on a golf trip.  I would think Hawaii leads the country in the most annoying assemblege of golfers in existance...and how does this play into the possible enjoyment of an outing.

[THuckaby2]

Having just returned from Maui this past weekend, I'd just add these thoughts:

1. I'd disagree with Tommy's "not even close" re Kapalua Plantation.  Yes, I'd say that the Plantation is a truly great course and Ran's review is absolutely right on, but to say nothing else on the island is even close is really stretching things.  Though I haven't played it, from what I hear and see in pictures the new "Dunes at Mauna Lani" (somewhat near the airport) looks really cool... and each of the Emerald and Gold courses at Wailea are very worthwhile.  On top of this, my feeling is the area near Wailea is a better place to stay then is Kapalua... Just personal preference but to me Wailea area is more lush and tropical and has better beaches, better restaurants, better everything than exists up at Lahaina-Kaanapali-Kapalua.  So yes, Plantation is clearly the best course, but saying nothing else is close is stretching things, and advising one to just stay at Kapalua and see nothing else is REALLY stretching things.  Maui has a LOT to see beyond the golf - Haleakala crater, road to Hana, Napili bay... This is not a place to just bury one's self in a golf course, even one as great as Plantation, I'd say.  My advice would be stay at one of the great hotels near Wailea, drive up and play Plantation, play Wailea Gold course also.  Take whatever time you have left to do the road to Hana or the drive up to the Haleakala crater.  You won't regret it.

2. I can't see doing a guy's golf trip to Maui or anywhere in Hawaii, really.  Too many other things to do besides golf.  To me guys trips revolve around golf and drinking, not necessarily in that order.  Yeah, that could work in Hawaii, but beyond being expensive as all hell, it would seem to me silly to go there and not go to the beach, snorkel, etc.

3. From what I hear Wigler is right on re trip to Lanai... I didn't do that myself but friends of mine have and they raved about it incessantly.  Some other time....

TH

[Martin Del Vecchio]

I wasn't very impressed with Mauna Kea.  

I was extremely impressed with Kapalua Plantation, but not the other Kapalua course I played (the Palmer course).

[Brian Joines]

While I did enjoy Kapulua Plantation, I would still give the upper hand to Pirnceville (Prince). I liked it better than any of the 5 I've played over there, including Mauna Kea

[Bob_Huntley]

Kapalua does not have better weather than Wailea, period. The Plantation is good.

The Lodge at Koele is splendid, the Experience is not. Manele Bay is a delight to play but with a quirkey routing on two holes.

I have a soft spot for Mauna Kea, but agree with Dave Wigler, the tenth hole is not going to win many awards for design excellence.

I find it hard to believe there is one amongst us that is displeased with The Prince course on Kauai, the first hole is a positive gem.

[John Foley]

Jeff,

I'll add a bunch of seconds.

Golf at Mauna Lani was very good, not great. Enjoy the scenary though. Down the road is Mauna Kea ( &  Palmers newer course). If you get to Kaui golf at the Prince is very, very good.

When you get to Maui, the weather is better in Waliea.
For as good as the golf near Waleia is, Kapalua Plantation is far, far superior. It is a hike from there though. Highly recomend the jaunt to Lanai if you can swing it. Take the 6:30AM boat out of Lahina, play 18 in the AM @ Koele then 18 in the PM @ Manele. Hve dinner or a cocktail there and then catch the last ferry back to Maui. A great way to spend a day.

The pool @ the Ritz in Kapalua is simply heaven on earth.

[Martin Del Vecchio]

I thought the Prince course was fabulous, but was extremely disappointed by the conditions (in May, 2000).  The fairways were long and full of unrepaired divots, and the greens were hairy and bumpy.  I don't mean hairy and bumpy such that Tiger Woods would complain about playing a PGA Tour tournament there; I mean they were just BAD.

The next day I played Kiele Lagoons, and it was in almost perfect condition.  Although they are both on Kauai, and about 25 miles apart, they are in remarkably different climates.  Still, the condition at Prince must be blamed in part on the club.

[THuckaby2]

Just fyi, I drove from Wailea to Kapalua a week ago and it took me 50 minutes each way.  Traffic was light.  That is a hike if one is there just for golf at Kapalua... But if Kapalua golf is just one of the things one has ventured to Maui for, then it is doable.

I enjoyed the golf at Wailea.  Yes, Kapalua Plantation is a far superior course to any of the three at Wailea, but that's because Plantation is so great, not because any of the three at Wailea are bad.

TH

[henrye]

Jeff.  On the big island I also suggest you play Mauna Kea.  The course has been discussed on previous threads and some here believe it's overrated.  I think it's a great course and frankly the one that helped establish Hawaii as a golfing destination.

The Plantation course is a good course, but make no mistake it is a mountain course with substantial elevation changes.  If you are a low handicapper, fine, but when you're a 15 like myself, you'd better be ready for some tough lies on those sloping fairways.

I think if your looking for sheer scenic beauty, Manele Bay on Lanai is the one to play and it's almost as accessible from the big island as Maui is.

[Tommy_Naccarato]

Well, since many of you disagree with my thoughts on Kapalua-Plantation, and where to stay, I'l just say this about that....

I enjoy Waliea, the views, the magnificient scenary, the dormant volcano on the point, the resort golf, etc. However, I like the cooling ocean winds, and I also like them for golf too. This is what separates me from Mr. & Mrs. Huckaby, who are vacationing; enjoying their time together, and enjoy resort life. I'm single, which means I get to enjoy the night life of Lahaina; the ease of access to get there from Kapalua, and the best, most challenging golf course in the Hawaiian Islands. In fact, I will go to my grave thinking that. I will also go to my grave knowing that Kapalua Plantation is probably one of the most under-appreciated courses in the Game!

Tom, were you there with Gib?

[Raymond]

By now you have a pretty good idea of your options outside the Big Island but if you have the opportunity to stay a night in Lanai, please do it. The Manele Bay facility is just outstanding as is the golf course. For my bucks, I would spend as much time as you have in Lanai at Manele Bay and skip Koele. However do get to Maui and play the Plantation Course. It is truely one of the most fun courses I've ever played. Yes, the three at Wailea are good, fun courses but don't compare to Kapalua Plantation.
Ray

[THuckaby2]

Tommy:

Gotcha.  If I were going over there solo or with a few of the college buds, then oh yes, getting one of the villas at Kapalua would be a great call.  No hassles there.  For exactly the reasons you state one would need never leave.

I just can't see doing that, in any area where so much else is to be seen and experienced.... But that's a conversation for another time and another thread.

Thus my thoughts about Wailea.  It is pretty darn nice down there, and from my perspective with family/kids etc. I'd rather stay there and travel to golf at Kapalua.

Just different perspective, that's all.

As for the courses, oh man I am very much with you re Plantation, it is everything you say and Ran says and more.  I was VERY impressed, to say the least.

I just also did enjoy Wailea, so saying those are "not even close" to Plantation just kinda overstates things to me.  "Clearly superior" I can live with... "Not even close" would imply to me that the Wailea courses suck, and well, they don't!

Redanman's right also in any case, the courses in Hawaii are high on the experiential factor.  But until I become like the guy on the incessantly repeated USGA ad and become "blind, but I have a handicap" I play with full sight and thus to discount the experiential seems very silly.

TH

ps - no, Gib and I don't travel in the same circles!  I had no idea he was over there.  

[Craig Van Egmond]

Tom,

    You must have been the driver on the road to Hana, as a passenger it is absolute torture! If you've had enough after the first 15 miles, then turn back its all the same afterwards.

    I thought the Makena North course was very good, but the Plantation rules.

[THuckaby2]

Craig:

I guess the road to Hana is not for everyone.  We took all day doing it and made many stops at waterfalls, secluded beaches, etc...  it was really, really fun .  If one is just going to drive it without stopping, yes, it would suck, both for driver and passenger.

TH

[Evan Fleisher]

Redanman...Waikoloa Kings was just a so-so resort course, IMO.  All the trouble is left (for those righty-slicer types), plenty of lava, but nothing architecturally jumps out at you.  I will agree however, that with the wind up (and when isn't it?) the small greens do place a premium on accuracy.

TH...I enjoyed our one and only trip on the road to Hana, but for the car-sick types I'd advise against it.  Incredible scenery, great spots to stop and take it all in (waterfalls, black sand beaches, etc.)...just give yourself an entire day to get it all in.

[THuckaby2]

Evan:

Agreed, I'd say re the road to Hana the key is to take an entire day.  Doing that, even car-sick types will manage and the sights and experiences to be had are worth it.

Trying to blast through it without stopping I wouldn't advise to anyone.

TH

[Joel_Stewart]

There are 4 new courses in Hawaii that I would say you should try and play.

On the Big Island,

Nanea - David McClay Kidd
Hokuli'a - Jack Nicklaus
Both are private

Honolulu
Royal Kunia - Robin Nelson
This is one of the most interesting stories of the year. The course was built 10 years ago or so and never opened due to failure to pay back taxes.  It review in the Honolulu star bulletin said it was the best course in Hawaii.  I'm told the greens are not in very good condition.

Kauai:
Grove Farms - Robin Nelson
This course was 10 holes and then purchased by Steve Case of AOL (who is from Hawaii).  Robin Nelson was called in to build the additional holes and is supposdly now one of the best courses in Kauai.

[Jonathan Cummings]

Over the years I've played and written about most all of the Hawaii courses and have little to add to the various magazine rankings.  But here's what I will add.

Hawaii golf is not about cutting edge architecture, intuitive routings, last-round-of-your-life venues, etc.  It's about being in Hawaii.  

Do an experiment for me.  As you play the wonderful Plantation Course, Mauna Kea, Prince, or others, estimate the amount of time you spend enjoying the scenery as compared to amount of time spent looking at and concentrating on the hole before you.   Compare that ratio to an equivalent ratio at other "wonderful" courses you have played and you'll likely find, as I did, that you are sightseeing in wonder more often at Hawaii courses.  

The golf is just an added benefit.

J