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Mark Saltzman

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Wichita Country Club (Diddel) - A Photo Tour
« on: December 10, 2012, 09:03:49 PM »
Wichita Country Club has a tremendous history of holding championships, including the US Women's Open, the Trans-Miss, Women's Mid-Am and the US Senior Am, and yet the Club remains largely unknown.  The routing is intimate on a tight piece of property with holes that seemingly wind around one another.  The greens are a tremendous set -- varied and nasty.  Let's hope Wichita CC is  never awarded a US Open as surely a prerequisite would be a flattening of many greens.






As mentioned, the holes wind in a circular motion, and as a result many dogleg left.  This trend starts early as the opening pair of par-4s move left around trees.  At both holes the main interest is found on the green.    The first green sits at-grade and rolls with the land...




While the second green relies more on tilt and a huge know at its back-centre...




The third is a mid-length par-3s that connects the golfer to the next hole.  The fourth is a solid par-5 and reachable in two for the bombers, but only if strategic bunkering on the left is challenged to leave a second shot that is clear of the trees and bunkers pictured...




The fifth runs along the boundary of the property and probably was a more interesting hole before a back-tee added some 40 yards to the hole.  Note the fascinating landforms in the centre of the fairway...




The 6th features one of the most severe greens I've ever seen.  The green slopes noticeably from back-to-front and a massive spine runs down its centre before banking hard to the left.








The 7th is another short par-4 that moves left and features the diagonal spine on its green. 




8 and 9 are big golf holes.  The 8th is a par-3 that stretches to near 220 yards and begs for a drawing tee shot.




The 9th is the perfect microcosm for the golf course as a whole.  The hole moves left, trees impede slightly on the line of play, the bunkering is simple and strategic, and the green is extreme.  If the greens were softened, the 9th would probably be the first to be altered.








At 447 yards the 10th is the longest par-4 on the golf course and offers a surprisingly small green as a target.




The 11th feels like a MacRaynor Short with noteable internal contouring...




The 12th hole is now a bizarre par-4, driveable by some, and a hole where trees now dictate strategy.  It is almost impossible to reconcile the current 12th with the 12th in the original routing.

The 13th is a pretty par-4 where the Line of Instinct draws the golfer to the left and toward the water.






At the 15th trees again protect the ideal line and golfers wishing to leave a short approach must play a rope hook.  The property is mostly flat but in places, as seen in the rolling 13th fairway, the land is well used.
 







The 17th is another longish par-3 at 190 yards.  I may have forgotten it, if not for my chip-in, which meant I had 9 putts through 8 holes on the back-nine!




18 is one of the best holes on the golf course.  The fairway narrows the longer the drive...




And deceptive bunkering make depth perception difficult and hide much of the putting surface...




Which, not surprisingly, is highly contoured.  Oh, I chipped-in again on 18!


Greg Ohlendorf

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Re: Wichita Country Club (Diddel) - A Photo Tour
« Reply #1 on: December 10, 2012, 09:08:56 PM »
And these guys may have the best locker room lunch buffet in the game!

Josh Tarble

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Re: Wichita Country Club (Diddel) - A Photo Tour
« Reply #2 on: December 10, 2012, 09:25:03 PM »
Thanks for this tour Mark.  I've only seen one othe Diddel design, Meridian Hills here in Indy.  I see a lot of similarities in the severe greens, especially back to front slope and also a short par 3 over water to a wild green.  I'd also like to see what they'd look like with a few trees cleared out.

K. Krahenbuhl

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Re: Wichita Country Club (Diddel) - A Photo Tour
« Reply #3 on: December 10, 2012, 09:29:42 PM »
Thanks for this tour Mark.  I've only seen one othe Diddel design, Meridian Hills here in Indy.  I see a lot of similarities in the severe greens, especially back to front slope and also a short par 3 over water to a wild green.  I'd also like to see what they'd look like with a few trees cleared out.

There is a planning place Josh - the chainsaws are warming up.  Trees < Natural Areas.

Phil McDade

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Re: Wichita Country Club (Diddel) - A Photo Tour
« Reply #4 on: December 10, 2012, 10:00:42 PM »
Mark:

As always, a great write-up and well-done capturing many of the green contours and tilts -- a tough task!

How would you compare Diddel's greens with those found in the region by the Maxwells?

Chris Clouser

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Re: Wichita Country Club (Diddel) - A Photo Tour
« Reply #5 on: December 11, 2012, 07:46:46 AM »
That sixth green reminds me of one that is on a local muni here in my home town that Diddel created.  His work is very underrated, mostly because of location I believe. 

Michael Herrmann

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Re: Wichita Country Club (Diddel) - A Photo Tour
« Reply #6 on: December 11, 2012, 10:36:34 AM »
I’m a member at a Diddel club in Cincinnati that was opened in 1960 (Miami View GC.)  Unlike what is shown at Wichita, our club is laid out over much more rolling terrain with greens that are, for the most part, not nearly as sloped as what is shown here.

Some similarities that I do see though are a couple of good sized par 3’s, and a short par 3 with water directly in play.  Much like Wichita, we are laid out over a pretty compact piece of land, and could use some more thinning of interior trees (that process was started 4-5 years ago and each winter we take more down to open up the beauty of the property itself.)

Very nice tour and fun to see some other works of the man that designed the course I’ve been playing since I was 7 years old.

J_ Crisham

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Re: Wichita Country Club (Diddel) - A Photo Tour
« Reply #7 on: December 11, 2012, 10:58:31 AM »
Very nicely done course-was surprised how much Diddel got out of  a flattish property. Greens are diabolical- thought the 13th was the best hole on the course. Would echo Greg's sentiment regarding the lunch buffet. The pro/GM Cary Cozby was as gracious a host as one could hope to meet- a consumate professional in all senses of the word. This should be on every avid golfers list of clubs to play when enroute to Prairie Dunes.

Jeff_Brauer

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Re: Wichita Country Club (Diddel) - A Photo Tour
« Reply #8 on: December 11, 2012, 11:42:08 AM »
We redid all those bunkers some years back, including adding those fw bunkers on 18.  The sixth was originally a three tier green and somewhat larger, and had a cluster of green side bunkers left, at least according to plan, that had morphed into one, similar to all the others.  I wanted to restore those to plan, but members thought they would be "too different."

Diddel had it going on,and there were lots of subtleties I hadn't figured would occur in a 1950's design.  As to green contours, most I have talked to consider that he was influenced by Maxwell in overall style, but just a bit more conservative.
Jeff Brauer, ASGCA Director of Outreach

Terry Lavin

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Re: Wichita Country Club (Diddel) - A Photo Tour
« Reply #9 on: December 11, 2012, 11:52:46 AM »
Thanks for this tour Mark.  I've only seen one othe Diddel design, Meridian Hills here in Indy.  I see a lot of similarities in the severe greens, especially back to front slope and also a short par 3 over water to a wild green.  I'd also like to see what they'd look like with a few trees cleared out.

There are two in Chicago that I've played, Sunset Ridge and Edgewood Valley.  They play each other yearly in the "Diddel Cup".  Nobody talks about either course, which is a shame, because they are both a lot of fun to play.  Edgewood, in particular, is a terrific course, with wacky, fun greens.  It also has a hole like the one you're talking about, a short par-3 over water to a wild green (maybe #4).  Edgewood has done a commendable job on tree removal, with mostly hardwoods (oak and hickory) left.  Sunset is a tree disaster.  One hole has so many spruce trees around it that it's been dubbed, "Santa's Village".  With a big haircut, I think it would be a very good everyday golf course.
Nobody ever went broke underestimating the intelligence of the American people.  H.L. Mencken

Josh Tarble

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Re: Wichita Country Club (Diddel) - A Photo Tour
« Reply #10 on: December 11, 2012, 02:29:29 PM »
I would like to several of these courses with significant tree removal...the one thing I think about is the fact that Pete Dye was impacted by Diddel early in his career.  Looks like especially through the use of playing angles and doglegs, so I would love to see what they look like without those trees.

Chris Clouser

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Re: Wichita Country Club (Diddel) - A Photo Tour
« Reply #11 on: December 11, 2012, 02:57:29 PM »
Jeff,

I find the comment about Diddel being influenced by Maxwell humorous.  I doubt Diddel ever really saw much Maxwell until later in his career, if ever.  Much of his work in Indiana was completed way before Maxwell's best designs were in the ground.  Courses like Brookshire, Brookwood, Forest Park, etc. were done in the 1920s and I would think Diddel developed his own style, even though it bears some similarities to Maxwell or Mackenzie.  Maybe it just shows that the idea of undulating greens was not that much of an extraordinary idea and we celebrate individuals of that era way more than we should when it appears to be a recurring theme of the entire generation of architects/designers.

Nigel Islam

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Re: Wichita Country Club (Diddel) - A Photo Tour
« Reply #12 on: December 12, 2012, 10:44:48 PM »
Chris,
 Wichita is listed as 1950 on www.billdiddel.com so it is certainly conceivable that an excellent player like Diddel might have played a course or have been influnced by Maxwell. I think Woodland was what he considered to be his best course and that was 1951. I never had the chance to play there though.  Certainly I think he was a minimalist, but I also wonder if he might have had sone influence from Raynor/Macdonald and Langford/Moreau. His Evansville work was in the late 40s and 50s, and I swear some of these holes are "Short" holes with the odd "Eden" and "Redan" in there. I think you have to use your imagination a little though. There is a great Short hole at Evansville Country Club. I think I've played 11 of his courses, most of them a ton.

Chris Clouser

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Re: Wichita Country Club (Diddel) - A Photo Tour
« Reply #13 on: December 13, 2012, 07:34:07 AM »
Nigel,

I see what you are saying, but Diddel was doing this stuff way earlier than 1950 and most of it was before he really started to branch out of Indiana with his designs.  The evidence would suggest that he came up with these concepts based on early courses in Indiana that he played in his formative years.  There wasn't a lot of really good stuff in Indiana prior to the 1920s when he really started doing a lot of work around the state, so my guess is places like French Lick would have been influencial in his design mindset.  But Maxwell, I really doubt.  I've played probably 20 different Diddel courses around the state if not more.

I do find it interesting that the Diddel site has him listed as having done the Woodbine Course in Oklahoma City in 1934.  He's probably the fifth different architect I have seen accredited with that design. The course was actually done originally by Maxwell in the 1920s.  Evidently they weren't happy with the course because someone came in and did a redesign in 1934.  Most sources attribute it to Floyd Farley.  I'd be interested to see what Diddel did to have that listed on his resume.  Seems to be an outlier with the rest of his work from that timeframe as well.

Maybe Ron Kern can chime in if he knows anything.  If he even posts on the site anymore.

Nigel Islam

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Re: Wichita Country Club (Diddel) - A Photo Tour
« Reply #14 on: December 13, 2012, 08:15:01 PM »
Yeah, I am sure you are right Chris. I'm not sure I see a lot of Ross in his work though (the French Lick reference). By the way Chris, I played Lincoln Homestead in Kentucky today where the Maxwells have the design credit even though I think they just did some green work. Probably also only on the back nine too.

Kevin Stark

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Re: Wichita Country Club (Diddel) - A Photo Tour
« Reply #15 on: December 14, 2012, 08:35:26 PM »
Given his location and the time frame when he was active, Langford/Moreau, Tom Bendelow, Willie Park, Jr., and Donald Ross would be the most likely influences on Diddel, especially early in his career. Diddel got his start finishing Highland in Indianapolis, which was routed by Park in the early 1920's. This likely would have provided him access to Olympia Fields North, which is another Park course done in the same time frame. Existing courses of significance in central Indiana would have been what is now Woodstock Club (Bendelow), Country Club of Indianapolis (Bendelow), and French Lick (Ross). Harrison Hills (Langford/Moreau) and Broadmoor (Ross) were built around the same time as Highland and certainly would have been of note to a budding golf course architect based in Indianapolis. The Indiana Golf Association's site does not list the location of Bill's Indiana Amateur championships. Those would have almost certainly been held in the Indianapolis area back then, though I have no knowledge of where those were played. Given Bill's construction schedule listed on the site that Chris notes, he certainly was exposed to many other Langford/Moreau designs in the midwest early in his career. Ron Kern would know more about his travels back then. He is the authority on his designs.

I personally don't see Maxwell in his work but I own a pair of untrained eyes. Mr. Kern will be the authority to weigh in here.

Terry Lavin

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Re: Wichita Country Club (Diddel) - A Photo Tour
« Reply #16 on: May 14, 2013, 12:05:36 PM »
I just played here last week on my way to Prairie Dunes.  PD had a pro-am on the day we arrived, so we made arrangements to play WCC.  What a treat!  First of all, the people who work there could not have been more gracious to our last-minute request to play.  The lunch buffet (Mexican fare on the day we played) was indeed terrific.

As for the golf course, all of the commentary about the delightful, challenging and consistent difficulty of the putting surfaces is spot-on.  There are three or four greens where a player could easily putt off the green and maybe into a bunker!  The routing is a classic, extra-tight old school bit of a mess, leading to some pretty close holes.  In fact there's one place on the course where one can see four greens on a straight diagonal line, with the maximum distance being about 170 yards.  Visually goofy perhaps, but noteworthy.  There are a bunch of doglegs with tree issues, but that can be easily remedied.  The 13th is a terrific par 4 and clearly the best on the course.

In terms of the club's history, I believe it hosted the 1970 Western Am, which was won by Lanny Wadkins, if my memory of the memorabilia is correct.

I'd definitely add this to the PD itinerary if one has the time.
« Last Edit: May 14, 2013, 12:08:03 PM by Terry Lavin »
Nobody ever went broke underestimating the intelligence of the American people.  H.L. Mencken

David Lott

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Re: Wichita Country Club (Diddel) - A Photo Tour
« Reply #17 on: May 14, 2013, 07:40:47 PM »
Bill Diddle's greatest achievement was that he kept at his craft from the 1920's to the 1960's. He did a military and muni work and very little work with much of a budget even before the Depression. Sunset Ridge (which I know best because I was once a member) is a pretty good golf course, and the property had some slope and contour, which Diddle used to advantage. But the site was pretty small for the ambition of the club in the mid 1920's(which seemingly was not matched by the size of their pocketbook.)

Diddle's association with Park, his excellent tournament record as a young man and his reasonably good connections in Indiana and Indianapolis would have given him the ability to get access to many courses that could have influenced him. Whether he bothered to do so is unclear. He was not a trend follower, or a trend setter. He was a solid workman who loved the game and made a solid contribution.

Sunset was really a good early effort for a young man with little experience at the time. Somehow the club survived the Depression, even though it was not a first tier club in the Chicago area. So maybe the tight property and low budget were not such a bad idea. There was not much room to make changes, which has preserved the routing and much of the design.

Diddle was a fine athlete. He was a basketball All America (they had them even in the early 1900's) and is reputed to have shot his age over 1000 times. He was still active, and still playing decent golf, in his 90's. His best golf courses still challenge all but the very best players. I had played my golf mostly at Fox Chapel and Blue Mound before moving to Chicago and joining Sunset. It did not seem to me that it was a huge step down, and Sunset was a great all around club. (We kicked butt in Platform Tennis and apparently still do.)
David Lott

Greg Ohlendorf

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Re: Wichita Country Club (Diddel) - A Photo Tour
« Reply #18 on: May 15, 2013, 02:54:57 PM »
Quite simply...a fun course, great people and maybe the best men's locker room buffet in golf. Don't miss it if you get to town.

Greg

Tom_Doak

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Re: Wichita Country Club (Diddel) - A Photo Tour
« Reply #19 on: May 16, 2013, 05:53:45 AM »
I find the comment about Diddel being influenced by Maxwell humorous.  I doubt Diddel ever really saw much Maxwell until later in his career, if ever.  Much of his work in Indiana was completed way before Maxwell's best designs were in the ground.  Courses like Brookshire, Brookwood, Forest Park, etc. were done in the 1920s and I would think Diddel developed his own style, even though it bears some similarities to Maxwell or Mackenzie.  Maybe it just shows that the idea of undulating greens was not that much of an extraordinary idea and we celebrate individuals of that era way more than we should when it appears to be a recurring theme of the entire generation of architects/designers.

In many cases these "undulating greens" were simply a matter of building positive surface drainage, which is the surest way to provide for healthy native-soil greens.  In fact, today's flatter greens, even though they are built with great materials, are less healthy as a rule because the water doesn't get off them as well.

Scott Warren

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Re: Wichita Country Club (Diddel) - A Photo Tour
« Reply #20 on: May 16, 2013, 07:35:27 AM »
Mark,

Thanks for the tour. I am a little bit obsessed with Wichita, having flown 22hrs to get there from Sydney last August (SYD > LAX > MSP > ICT).

Of course I only went to Wichita to get to Prairie Dunes, but after visiting once, I'd love to go back and spend some more time there enjoying Middle America.

The Old Town area is really fun to wander around.

The local ballpark (AA ball?) looked like a great all-American way to spend a night. There was a game on the night I was there, but they were well into it by the time my cab drove by taking me back to my hotel from...

River City Brewing Co. Awesome place with great boutique beers and very friendly bar staff.

When I do make that return trip, I will definitely check out Wichita CC.

Criss Titschinger

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Re: Wichita Country Club (Diddel) - A Photo Tour
« Reply #21 on: April 13, 2019, 09:27:04 AM »
Has anybody played here since the Tripp Davis bunker renovation? It's interesting using Google Earth to flip back and forth between the pre-renovation view of 2015 and the post-renovation view of 2017. Some bunkers removed. A few added in driving zones to tighten up a number of holes. All re-shaped with a more jagged look. Would be interested for thoughts of anyone who's played the pre- and post- versions of WCC.

Brad Tufts

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Re: Wichita Country Club (Diddel) - A Photo Tour
« Reply #22 on: April 13, 2019, 11:14:21 AM »
I did not play the pre-renovation version but the post version was very cool.  It reminded me of the vibe of Oklahoma City G&CC, without the creek holes that make the latter a standout.


After viewing the pre-renovation pics, it seems like the good bones were enhanced and maximized successfully by Davis.
So I jump ship in Hong Kong....