[Sean_A]

Ivan

While I would slam a course for being too narrow in high winds, I don't worry much about the greens.  If we are going to use 30mph as a guideline for contours/slope then golf architecture is in double trouble if stimping at 11 is the guideline speed.  

No comment on Klondyke or Castle.

Ciao

[Ally Mcintosh]

Sean - I agree with many of your comments... I too like the 5th green and especially the 7th green at Enniscrone... 17th is great also but not so big a fan of 15... And I do tend to agree with Mark about the 3 par-5's out of the 6 new holes... As for Lahinch, I don't have the same problems as Mark and Ivan with either the 6th or 16th greens (think Sean is being harsh calling the bunkers wishy-washy too)... And it is clear why they built a new 11th, nominally to move the tee back on 12 but also because it provides a more spectacular - though unfortunately not better - par 3... Can't for the life of me understand your comment (Sean) about the hollow on 6 though... It is perfect as is and would not work in any other way.... All sand - too much maintenance due to erosion no doubt.... All short grass - impossible to maintain without filling slightly and completely taking away its character...

[Ivan Morris]

Ally- I understand where you are coming from re: the 15th at Enniscrone and if you played the 6th and 16th at Lahinch as often as I do, you might be as underwhelmed as I am. BTW- I can claim some credit for the 6th at Lahinch, which shows that my architectural skills are somewhat faulty. To be honest, I know my limitations and have no ambitions in that regard. It won't stop me being a critic, though. Sean, I know what you mean about wishy-washy bunkers, my shots into and out of them are frequently wishy-washy. 

[Rory Connaughton]

  I come at this as a complete homer but I can't abide the notion that the holes inland from the dunes are boring.  The more times I play them the more their respective nuances leap out. They are fun golf holes and given how penal other portions of the course can be . . provide a reasonable respite without being easy.

  I agree with Sean's assessment of 5 - frankly I think it is one of the best holes on the course for the reasons you cite.  There is nothing boring about it and, depending on wind direction, requires the golfer to exercise a lot of discrection in club and shot selection.  Its a massive difference between the member tees and society tees as well.

I think four is an excellent reachable 5 as well btw.  If you put the right draw on the ball and are not fraid to play just over the left dunes the roll out places you in a terrific position to play for the green and the slope just to the right gives the golfer plenty of room to get the ball on the green without actually having to land it short or carry it on.  In essence the effective size of that green is far larger than its actual square footage.

6 is not a boring hole if you play it from the proper tees.  From the member tees into the prevailing wind you have to play straight over a coffin style bunker to have any hope of catching the downslope for a short club in and even then you are frequently clubbing down 2 or 3 due to the elevation and the wind.  I've had anywhere from sand wedge to hybrid.
If you are in the coffin . . you are f'ed.

seven is a bland driving hole unless you plan to play for the green in two, which is very achievable when it is playing downwind.  You have to stay left and then play for the kick in on the right.  From the right side of the fairway I don't see any hope.

10 is benign driving hole but the green is terrific and the gathering bunker front left is a monster.  Going anywhere near a left flag requires that you flirt with it and into the prevailing wind it is routine to under club.

12  is simply a unique short 4 with as many ways to play as you wish.  I have played driver blind over the dunes on the left and I have played 5 iron to the right and everything in between.  There is plenty of room to play but with just a hair of blindness it is a very intimidating tee shot and requires faith in your selected strategy and your swing because anything less and you will steer the ball into no man's land.  the green is also far more interesting than it appears at first glance.  It looks prety flat but then you go to the back left corner and hit a putt by the hole and see what happens.

17 is one of the great short 3's in Ireland.  Depending on wind, it can be a sand wedge or a 4 iron to a postage stamp sized green.  Our matches are routinely decided by execution on 17.

[Sean_A]

Sean - I agree with many of your comments... I too like the 5th green and especially the 7th green at Enniscrone... 17th is great also but not so big a fan of 15... And I do tend to agree with Mark about the 3 par-5's out of the 6 new holes... As for Lahinch, I don't have the same problems as Mark and Ivan with either the 6th or 16th greens (think Sean is being harsh calling the bunkers wishy-washy too)... And it is clear why they built a new 11th, nominally to move the tee back on 12 but also because it provides a more spectacular - though unfortunately not better - par 3... Can't for the life of me understand your comment (Sean) about the hollow on 6 though... It is perfect as is and would not work in any other way.... All sand - too much maintenance due to erosion no doubt.... All short grass - impossible to maintain without filling slightly and completely taking away its character...

Ally

I am not in favour of easy lost ball opportunities on blind shots.  The way Lahinch's 6th was maintained, we lost two balls down that hole and one was in the bunker.  While I am in favour of whimsy in golf, this is a bit OTT.  If there is going to be a cross hazard, make it a hazard, not a lost ball.  To me, this is poor architecture if it can't be maintained properly.  Plus, the bunker looks stupidly small for the hole - not even close to perfect if you ask me. 


Ciao

[Ally Mcintosh]

Sean - I agree with many of your comments... I too like the 5th green and especially the 7th green at Enniscrone... 17th is great also but not so big a fan of 15... And I do tend to agree with Mark about the 3 par-5's out of the 6 new holes... As for Lahinch, I don't have the same problems as Mark and Ivan with either the 6th or 16th greens (think Sean is being harsh calling the bunkers wishy-washy too)... And it is clear why they built a new 11th, nominally to move the tee back on 12 but also because it provides a more spectacular - though unfortunately not better - par 3... Can't for the life of me understand your comment (Sean) about the hollow on 6 though... It is perfect as is and would not work in any other way.... All sand - too much maintenance due to erosion no doubt.... All short grass - impossible to maintain without filling slightly and completely taking away its character...

Ally

I am not in favour of easy lost ball opportunities on blind shots.  The way Lahinch's 6th was maintained, we lost two balls down that hole and one was in the bunker.  While I am in favour of whimsy in golf, this is a bit OTT.  If there is going to be a cross hazard, make it a hazard, not a lost ball.  To me, this is poor architecture if it can't be maintained properly.  Plus, the bunker looks stupidly small for the hole - not even close to perfect if you ask me. 


Ciao

Maintain it as short grass and you'd have to soften it plus it will be filled with divots (think 7 hollow at The Old Course that is no longer). Calling it poor architecture is a bit rich unless you can offer a working alternative that is clearly superior and necessary. My memory doesn't have it as losing ball grass. Must have been the wet summer got those grasses up... I like it - it's an individual feature that plays its part in defining the hole.

[Sean_A]

Ally

To me, a big bunker there is superior to the puny thing fronted by long grass.  I don't much see the point of a hollow in the middle of the fairway maintained like the above.  In fact, I think iits one of the more daft things I have encountered on what I consider a top notch course.  Honestly, other than #11 being taken out, this feature was the most disappointing one I encountered at Lahinch.  

Ciao

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