Will Sand Valley be built with carts in mind?

[John Kavanaugh]

It hurts me to admit this but I just can't afford to both travel to places like Sand Valley and take caddies. Caddie fees equal the cost of a room or the cost of a rental car or even a really fine meal including booze. I don't take carts because I don't like to walk, I take carts because I can't afford a caddie.

[Phil McDade]

It hurts me to admit this but I just can't afford to both travel to places like Sand Valley and take caddies. Caddie fees equal the cost of a room or the cost of a rental car or even a really fine meal including booze. I don't take carts because I don't like to walk, I take carts because I can't afford a caddie.

I think this is a really good point -- the move toward "mandatory" caddies (one top of the cost of a single round, the lodging, the meals, the tips) is one that makes me wonder just how sustainable all of these new courses are.

[Jud_T]

Phil,

If it's anything like Bandon, you will be able to carry or push if you don't want to pay for a caddie or simply want to burn more calories, both of which are also cheaper than a cart...

[William_G]

GT:  A few minutes ago you touched on something that I’d like to go back to and that’s the use of carts at Sand Valley. Am I understanding correctly that there will be some cart play at Sand Valley?

MK:   At least limited, yes. As you know we have them at Bandon Dunes in a limited capacity as well. Sand Valley will not have a huge fleet out front where visitors pull up. Visitors will not just say “Oh we can take a cart”. They will have to make a case for it.



It sounds to me that Mr Keiser has exactly the right attitude to golf carts. They are available to those who need them , but not offered on a general basis.

and caddies are not required at Bandon, never have been...but are required to drive the cart   

How will these carts influence the design?  Sounds like not at all....

[Dan Moore]

I prefer walking and would like to see fescue fairways and I think it will be primarily a walking facility.  But I wonder if the market (aging boomers like me) and climate (very hot and humid summer days) are conducive to no carts. Walking 36 when its over 90 degrees may be a tough sell.  Limited carts (maybe a 2 hour window each day) alternating between courses may be the answer. That way riders won't be locked out and everyone has an option while walking is still strongly encouraged. 

[Jon Wiggett]

Unlike most Keiser properties, golf carts will be permitted. Like Sand Hills, Sand Valley is so remote that it would be difficult to find enough caddies for every player. Walking will be encouraged, though.



I'm struggling to get my head around the logic that says " If there aren't enough caddies to go round, players will need carts."

The rest of the world manages just fine without either. We use trolleys. Electrically powered trolleys.


GT:  A few minutes ago you touched on something that I’d like to go back to and that’s the use of carts at Sand Valley. Am I understanding correctly that there will be some cart play at Sand Valley?

MK:   At least limited, yes. As you know we have them at Bandon Dunes in a limited capacity as well. Sand Valley will not have a huge fleet out front where visitors pull up. Visitors will not just say “Oh we can take a cart”. They will have to make a case for it.



It sounds to me that Mr Keiser has exactly the right attitude to golf carts. They are available to those who need them , but not offered on a general basis.

Duncan,

I would agree with you other than in hot climates where a cart is needed. I think that there is also no culture in the states of travelling to low to medium cost golf destinations in the USA for holidays and as such carts become a small cost in the big scheme of things. This is a shame as you miss so much on a golf course that makes playing so worth while if you do not walk.

Jon

[Sean_A]

I prefer walking and would like to see fescue fairways and I think it will be primarily a walking facility.  But I wonder if the market (aging boomers like me) and climate (very hot and humid summer days) are conducive to no carts. Walking 36 when its over 90 degrees may be a tough sell.  Limited carts (maybe a 2 hour window each day) alternating between courses may be the answer. That way riders won't be locked out and everyone has an option while walking is still strongly encouraged. 

To me, this is the dilemma that golf resorts face...especially some of the places going up these days in remote areas.  Golfers are stuck onsite without much else to do so some will want to play more golf, but 36 holes is a slog for a lot people.  Even if they can do it, many won't find walking 36 much fun, but what is the alternative...sitting around drinking and eating for a large chunk of the day?  Its for this reason that resorts don't appeal to me and why course location is very important...its nice to slam the clubs in the boot and just hang out or find something else interesting to do.  All golf and no culture makes jack a dull boy 

Ciao 

[Jason Thurman]

I think that there is also no culture in the states of travelling to low to medium cost golf destinations in the USA for holidays and as such carts become a small cost in the big scheme of things.

It's easy to think this if your exposure to US golf comes from reading what GCA posters do, but this couldn't be further from the truth. Within 45 minutes of my childhood home are at least 6 golf "resorts." The closest of those to my hometown offers rates of $230 per person for three rounds, two nights lodging, two free breakfasts, and a $20 pro shop gift card. Any way you slice it, that's cheap. A quick glance at the websites of the other resorts suggests that their prices are comparable, if not lower. All prices include carts.

These resorts are all booked solid throughout the warmer months, and full of guests from out of state. The golf quality is somewhere between below-average and abysmal, but the "retail golfer" doesn't care. There are far more golfers in the US traveling to these and similar budget-friendly locations than there are traveling to places like Streamsong, Bandon, or Sand Valley. They just don't hang out on this website, and we don't discuss the budget-friendly locations here because the golf architecture sucks.

[Jud_T]

I think that there is also no culture in the states of travelling to low to medium cost golf destinations in the USA for holidays

The owners of the 100+ golf courses and 60,000+ hotel rooms in the Myrtle Beach are might take exception to this...

[Jon Wiggett]

Jason,

do they offer this $230 through the main season? If so what is it called?

Jon