[Mark Saltzman]

Normal wind direction has holes 3/4 playing straight downwind...










I will post more later but wanted to get started...

First, as I said to Tony Nysse when I met him, "I didn't know greens in Florida could run this fast or putt this true."  Though I was told that the greens were running slightly slower than mid-season speed (they were running at 12) and slightly softer that than mid-season firmness, I thought the maintenance meld was darned near ideal.  Downhill putts/recoveries were fearsome but usually doable with a perfectly played shot.  Well-struck approaches to greens would land and release a few yards, but shots hit a bit thin or fat would trundle over the green.  When the greens are at full speed and firmness, combined with the wind, elevated greens, and run-offs at the perimeters of the greens, you better be one hell of a ball-striker to score.  

I understand the fairways were all re-grassed in the summer with Celebration Bermuda.  They are impeccable.  The 6,600 yard tees I played actually played quite short, as unlike most Florida golf, shots hit in the fairway would bounce and roll-out.

More to come...


The round starts with my favourite type of opener -- a hole where conservative shots should result in par but careless shots will be penalized.  The 1st is a short par-4 that bends left around a series of bunkers.  Golfers that choose to lay back from the tee will be faced with this obtruded approach to an angled green that falls away on all sides.  It is clever, raised bunkering like this that makes the golf course feel anything but flat.




It is some 230 yards from the Member Tees to carry the left-side bunkers.  Golfers brave enough to do so will be left with a better view of the green and most importantly a shot that is played up the throat of this angled green.




As seen from the front edge of the green, the green angles left-to-right to the fairway and is surprisingly shallow.




A back pin must be the most difficult pin on the 1st green as the green slopes noticeable away once past its mid-point.




None of Wilson's par-3s are easy, but they do offer variety, playing in 3 directions and ranging from 137 to 190 yards (7i, 4i, 5i, PW for me).  The 2nd green may be the most difficult par-3 green to hit, playing with a left-to-right wind and to a shallow green that falls off short, back-right and back-left.




3 and 4 are both mid-length par-4s, but downwind, length is not an issue on either.  There is substantial fairway width at the 3rd, but pin position will dictate an ideal side of the fairway.  As is regular at Pine Tree, the 3rd green is of a unique shape, narrow in the front half before widening significantly in the back-half -- almost like a 'T'.

[Keith Phillips]

I have driven around Pine Tree but have yet to play the course - strikes me as a tremendous golf club, with classic period design, a golf-only culture, and impeccable conditioning - I am very interested to follow this tour.

[Patrick_Mucci]

Mark,

# 1 generally plays into a strong prevailing wind and plays anything but short.
You got lucky on the day you were there.

The forth picture, the one of the 1st green doesn't do the green or the approach justice.
Do you have a photo from about 170-150 ?

It's a green angled from front left to back right and a tough target given that it plays narrow and is surrounded by bunkers.

Making a 4 on that hole is a challenge.

It's easy to start off two or three over par after the first two holes, as # 2 usually plays into the teeth of the wind as well.

You know, by the time you get to the third tee that you're in for a challenge.

[Frank M]

So far so good. Love the look of this place.

[Chris Munoz]

From what I have seen from pics posted on this website and facebook, the course looks great.  A lot of credit goes to Tony and his staff.  Good job Tony and keep up the great work.  Hopefully the members are seeing the changes and giving you the credit. 

[Mark Saltzman]

Mark,

# 1 generally plays into a strong prevailing wind and plays anything but short.
You got lucky on the day you were there.

The second picture, the one of the 1st green doesn't do the green or the approach justice.
Do you have a photo from about 170-150 ?

It's a green angled from front left to back right and a tough target given that it plays narrow and is surrounded by bunkers.

Making a 4 on that hole is a challenge.

It's easy to start off two or three over par after the first two holes, as # 2 usually plays into the teeth of the wind as well.

You know, by the time you get to the third tee that you're in for a challenge.

Patrick, I played close to first thing and had the first two holes with little to no wind, but it sure did start to pick up after that!

On 1 (from the 6,600 yard tees), a good tee shot left me the view I have added to the opening post -- about 110 yards to the front pin.

Even from where I hit my approach, which was ideal position, only to a front pin is it a simple shot.  Most of the putting surface remains blind.

[Anthony_Nysse]

Mark,
  I am looking forward to your review, both positive and negative. It was a please meeting you and gaining your thoughts. I will confirm that our "winter winds" usually come from the south, southeast. Thus making 3 & 4 downwind and 5 & 6 into the wind. Same with 14-downwind and 15 into the wind. Summer breezes are different, but we always blow leaves/debris/divots on 1 & 8 to the right side of the fairways, thus making for a southeast wind. (off the ocean)
  Chris-Thank you for the kind words. The membership, so far, has certainly enjoyed the changes and never really got the fairway grass they were hoping for in 2005 when it was previously renovated.

[Jud_T]

What's the average Handicap of the members?  I'm guessing it's significantly lower than most clubs in the area...

[Anthony_Nysse]

What's the average Handicap of the members?  I'm guessing it's significantly lower than most clubs in the area...

We have a solid core of members in the 0-8 range. With most greens requiring an aerial shot into the green, because of a fronting bunker, the course certainly lends itself to beat golfers up.  Mr. Mucci probably wont brag, but he has a collection of Club Championships under his belt.

[Mark Saltzman]

The 3rd and 4th holes are interesting in that they are both holes that play straightaway, but because the golfer will aim away from the centreline of fairway, they feel like dogleg holes.  At the 4th the Line of Instinct is interrupted by a rather large-scale bunker, but the golfer must fight his temptation to play left and play as far right as he dare for a much preferred angle of approach.




Approaches from the left are played over a series of greenside bunkers, one of which contains these grass islands, a feature seen several times on the golf course.




As seen from back-left, the 4th green lay at a 45-degree angle to the centre of the 4th fairway.  Approaches from the right need not carry the greenside bunkering and run less risk of bounding into the swale beyond the green.




Along with the tee shot at the 12th (once also a par-5), the only bunkerless tee shot on the golf course.  There is ample width, but the golfer, now having hit 4 shots in a row downwind, must immediately adjust his swing to the headwind.  The picture below is taken some 230 yards from the member tee, leaving 330 yards to the green, an intimidating view and zero chance of clearing the fairway bunkers on the right.  Cleverly varied fairway widths allow the golfer to play well short of the fairway bunkers, but the golfer wishing to leave 150 yards or less must bravely challenge the narrow portion of the fairway.




Though the 5th is a par-5, I am guessing few golfers will approach the green with less than a mid-iron third shot.  The 5th features a fascinating green, whose back portion is split left and right by a spine that sends balls toward the fall-offs on the back corners of the green.




From the tee, the 6th looks strikingly similar to the 2nd.  Removal of the fronting bunker, especially given the predominant wind direction, may allow for a greater variety of shots that could be played into this green.




The green is almost 3-pronged, with tongues/fall-offs front-left, back-left and back-right.  Another mid-sized green that plays much smaller.

[Patrick_Mucci]

What's the average Handicap of the members?  I'm guessing it's significantly lower than most clubs in the area...

Jud,

Not long ago, there were 56 golfers 4 or better, 20 2 or better and 10 0 or better.

That's a pretty solid group.

[Tom ORourke]

It has been many years since I played Pine Tree but I always liked the 5th. It always seemed a bit of a double dogleg to me. You wanted to draw the tee shot and fade the second shot. Angles were critical there. True?

[Ben Klaas]

Had the pleasure to play there recently.  I agree that Tony is doing a great job and has that course primed for the upcoming season.  What struck me was how nice and hospitable the members were.  I know that this site has discussion dominated about the actual courses themselves, but as far as a Club can be graded, you need to have great members to have a great club.  Fortunately for Pine Tree, they seem to have both.

FYI- Love the picture of the Hogan quote.  Seems to be a good summation of Florida golf as a whole. Flat.

[Patrick_Mucci]

It has been many years since I played Pine Tree but I always liked the 5th. It always seemed a bit of a double dogleg to me. You wanted to draw the tee shot and fade the second shot. Angles were critical there. True?

Tom,

From the back tee, I"ve always felt that # 5 at 620 was more difficult than # 16 at 670

# 5 plays into a wind or a cross wind that's mostly in your face, whereas # 16 plays downwind.
# 5's green is 1/4 the size of # 16 green, and totally surrounded by fronting bunkers.

And, the second shot on # 5 is much harder.

Both are real deal par 5's but, I'm sort of partial to # 5.

[Rick Baril]

I'm new here so go easy on me.  But, I can't resist asking: 
On Pine Tree's scorecard, it shows the ASGCA logo above Dick Wilson's name. 
Have I missed something or is this the pinnacle of irony?

[Carl Nichols]

Mark:
Thanks for yet another great photo tour.  How does Pine Tree compare, in your view, to some of the other South Florida courses you've played?  I was thinking specifically of CC of Florida and John's Island, but it looks like you've played just a few others, , so no need to limit yourself to those two courses....

[John Kirk]

Mark,

I notice you used the term "Line of Instinct".  Is that a term you have read somewhere else, or did you make that up?

[Mark Saltzman]

It has been many years since I played Pine Tree but I always liked the 5th. It always seemed a bit of a double dogleg to me. You wanted to draw the tee shot and fade the second shot. Angles were critical there. True?

Tom,

From the back tee, I"ve always felt that # 5 at 620 was more difficult than # 16 at 670

# 5 plays into a wind or a cross wind that's mostly in your face, whereas # 16 plays downwind.
# 5's green is 1/4 the size of # 16 green, and totally surrounded by fronting bunkers.

And, the second shot on # 5 is much harder.

Both are real deal par 5's but, I'm sort of partial to # 5.

Patrick, based on very limited experience, I agree.  After a Driver / 3W on both 5 and 16, I had 5-iron left into 5 and 8-iron into 16.

I also agree that the second shot on 5 is not only more difficult, but also more interesting.

[Mark Saltzman]

Mark:
Thanks for yet another great photo tour.  How does Pine Tree compare, in your view, to some of the other South Florida courses you've played?  I was thinking specifically of CC of Florida and John's Island, but it looks like you've played just a few others, , so no need to limit yourself to those two courses....

Carl, CCF is on a [slightly] better piece of land, with a couple of noticeable elevation changes and a with some more rolling fairway contouring.  Its bunkering is simpler and arguably more strategic.  The greens at both are interesting.  Pine Tree's are all raised, varying greatly in size and shape, but once found are simply contoured.  Both courses make excellent use of fairway cut run-offs around the green.

I haven't played all of the big name courses in Florida, but my Florida top-5 would include:

Johns Island West
Pine Tree
Country Club of Florida
Calusa Pines
TPC Sawgrass

Close: Old Marsh, Black Diamond, Trump, High Ridge

[Mark Saltzman]

Mark,

I notice you used the term "Line of Instinct".  Is that a term you have read somewhere else, or did you make that up?

John, I did not make it up.  My friend Tommy Naccarato has spent a lot of time trying to get me to fully understand the distinction between, and importance of, the Line of Instinct and Line of Charm.

"The trouble with most inland golf holes, as I see it, is that they emphasize instinct. And the golfer's instinct upon the tee is to drive on a bee line to the hole. This line in most cases is down the middle of a fairway, which permits too much latitude for mistakes. Instinct supplies the motive power, but it is the degree and manner in which instinct is opposed that calls upon intelligence. In other words, it is the peculiarity of the manner in which instinct is transformed by hazards that makes or breaks a hole. According to the conformation of the ground, there is for all of us a definite line that we will plump for. If the ground slopes gently down from right to left, the line of instinct will be bent out to the right. We will want to overcome the throw of gravity. This we may call the line of charm . Before construction, this line must be felt. When determined, nothing must be done to deny it. The golfer must not be turned from it. But we can render it tremendously exciting for him to take it. In other words, if we could always accurately determine the line of instinct of a hole, all we have to do is to dig bunkers into it, with the result that we make the firing line hot for him.” -- Max Behr

[John Kirk]

Thanks for the explanation, Mark.  As always, great photos and commentary.

[Mark Saltzman]

The seventh hole is the most difficult hole on the golf course and includes what must be the course's single most controversial feature -- a pair of trees guarding the ideal line within 50 yards of the tee.  The prevailing wind is from right to left, demanding the golfer take their tee shot over the water to find the fairway.  A pair of deep bunkers guard the outside of the dogleg -- they could be saving bunkers but their severity converts them to a penal feature.




Playing near the water leaves the much easier approach.  Not only does the golfer play their approach on a straighter line into this angled green, but he also plays into its considerable slope.




The 8th is a similar hole to the 1st, playing in the same direction and moving left from the tee.  Unlike the 1st, the series of bunkers on the left should not be challenged, and the angled green at 1st is replaced by a wide and shallow green.






The second of three par-5s on the golf course, the 9th is the only one reachable in two.  A pair of bunkers intrude into the fairway's centreline and must be carried (about 230 yards from the Member Tee) if the golfer wishes to reach the green in two.




A series of 3 bunkers protect the right side of the fairway, and the closer the 2nd shot is played to the green, the narrower the fairway.  Laying up to the widest point of the fairway leaves this imposing 100-yard approach...




While playing to the narrow left-side portion of the fairway leaves a more appealing pitch...

[Ronald Montesano]

Clearly the guys who attended UCC understand Max Behr better than this fellow. I'll have to reread it until I understand what he means by "line of instinct." Line of charm is less confusing, as it suggests to me a wayward seduction, an entrapment. For me, in most cases, the two are inseparable, as I always expect to hit the ball better than I am capable.

How does celebration bermuda differ from regular/natural bermuda, the legal weed? What type of grass is on the greens, to get them so fast and true?

[Patrick_Mucci]

Mark,

Thanks for posting these pictures, they're great.

The only problem I see is that the telephoto lens tends to shorten the look of the hole.

Some of the par 4's, photo'd from the tee, look almost like long par 3's.

What's abundantly clear is the aerial nature of the golf course at the green end and the need to avoid fairway bunkers.

I'll post additional commentary when time permits, but I have to run, I have a big match tomorrow with a dear friend.
We're playing against our sons whose golfing future is ahead of them, while our's is behind us.

[Mark Saltzman]

Clearly the guys who attended UCC understand Max Behr better than this fellow. I'll have to reread it until I understand what he means by "line of instinct." Line of charm is less confusing, as it suggests to me a wayward seduction, an entrapment. For me, in most cases, the two are inseparable, as I always expect to hit the ball better than I am capable.

How does celebration bermuda differ from regular/natural bermuda, the legal weed? What type of grass is on the greens, to get them so fast and true?

Stan, UCC grad or not, I think you're definition of the Line of Charm isn't quite right.

Wayward seduction and entrapment are words I would more closely associate with the Line of Instinct.

Behr sometimes described the Line of Instinct as the straight line to the hole, at least on straightaway holes.  On dogleg holes I am not sure if  Behr would describe the Line of Instinct similarly as a straight line to the hole, but to me, it is the line the golfer instinctually (duh) or naturally wants to hit his tee shot on.  But, this temptation is often not the ideal line.  I think Pete Dye in his early work was as good as anyone in forcing the golfer's instinct towards the inside of the dogleg, while the smart play and indeed the ideal line was a good deal away from this line.  This ideal line is the Line of Charm.

Creating this contrast in the golfer's mind, this forcing of thought and indecision, is the key to the Line of Instinct / Line of Charm --- at least as I understand it!

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