What is the most "Australian" course in the US?

[Bruce Wellmon]

Last year I was impressed by Victoria on TV. This year Kingston Heath.
Perhaps we have covered this before, but, what is the most "sandbelt" course in the US? Is there anything comparable?

[Mark McKeever]

Working only with pictures I've seen online from the sandbelt, my thought would be a Boston GC type of track.

Mark

[Dave McCollum]

Haven’t played it, but according to a website Shadow Ridge in Palm Desert has some Oz features.  Don’t know who did the work; Faldo is listed as the architect.  Here’s the PR quote:

According to Faldo, Shadow Ridge draws inspiration from the great sand-belt courses of Australia. "Our fairways are typically generous but our bunkering style is impressively bold. The greens have plenty of subtle undulations and they reward and encourage a variety of approach shots."

http://www.palmsprings.com/golf/shadowridge.html

I can’t imagine anything in Palm Desert looking much like anything in the Sand Belt.  It’s a world apart from most golf.

[Jason Topp]

Kingsley has some similarities, if not a similar look. 

In order to have the bunkering, I understand you need a very sandy base.  I would love to see a course added at Bandon Dunes that attempts to imitate the sandbelt courses if the right conditions exist there. 

[Josh Tarble]

Just from pictures, the course Ran just posted a profile on, North Course at Forrest Creek, looks very similar

[Craig Van Egmond]

I am pretty sure Shadow Ridge was Curley/Schmidt.

[David Kelly]

I am pretty sure Shadow Ridge was Curley/Schmidt.

It definitely is and I think Faldo was the consultant or something.  It is one of the best Schmidt/Curley courses I've played.

The bunker shaping is somewhat reminiscent of some sandbelt courses but that's it.  There is a lot of water on the course and a lot of the fairways are built up on the sides to provide containment and to separate the holes which are definitely things you don't see in Melbourne.

Parts of Rustic Canyon remind me of the sandbelt, specifically the wide low profile fairways and the scrub plants between the tee boxes and fairways.  RC has more of a rugged unkempt look than the Melbourne courses however.

[Greg Holland]

Likewise, the Faldo Course at Wildfire Resort in Phoenix (also Curley & Schmidt) was meant to be like a Sandbelt course.

From their website:
The Faldo Course offers a slight variation from the typical desert-theme courses. It features generous fairways, large greens and multiple tee boxes. The surrounding mountains and century-old saguaro cacti as well as 108 sand bunkers, reminiscent of the Australian sand belt courses, provide a spectacular setting for the golf course and golfing guests.

[Tom_Doak]

Steve Smyers credits a lot of the look of his courses to the Sand Belt.  [He married an Aussie girl.]

I was going to say Streamsong, though.  Both Bill Coore and I have been influenced a bit by our time in Australia, and the flatter holes at Streamsong were a good place to do similar work.

[Tom Yost]

Likewise, the Faldo Course at Wildfire Resort in Phoenix (also Curley & Schmidt) was meant to be like a Sandbelt course.

From their website:
The Faldo Course offers a slight variation from the typical desert-theme courses. It features generous fairways, large greens and multiple tee boxes. The surrounding mountains and century-old saguaro cacti as well as 108 sand bunkers, reminiscent of the Australian sand belt courses, provide a spectacular setting for the golf course and golfing guests.

I've never visited or played golf in the sandbelt, but the presentation as seen by a TV viewer is thrilling.  That said, I don't see the connection with the Wildfire Faldo course.  Southern Dunes however (also a Schmidt & Curley), does evoke more of the rustic, wide open sandbelt feel to me.

[Tim Gavrich]

What about Pinehurst No. 2? Pine Needles/Mid Pines? What are the critical differences between Sandhills and Sandbelt?

Palmetto GC?

[John Foley]

The bunkering at Smyers Southern Dunes outside Orlando always reminded me of the Sand Belt courses. Guess we now know why.

[David_Elvins]

I do think that everyone gets way too hung up on bunker shape as the defining element of sand-belt courses.  Not only do the bunker shapes vary enourmously from hole to hole and course to course but there are several elements that far better define the courses IMO.  

These include:
-tight lies - it's very hard to get the club under the ball on any shot from the fairway.
-closely mown areas around the greens.  bump and run, chips and putts from off the green come into play
-short par 4s, most sandbelt courses have at least one really good short par 4.  
-lack of thick rough.  
-reasonable fairway widths.


When looking at these factors I think Pacific Dunes and Bandon Trails are two of the most Australian courses I have played in the US.  It was interesting talking to the US visitors at Bandon talking about how much they have to adjust their game to play there whereas for the Australian visitors, little adjustment is needed.  

Given the architects of these two courses, no surprise that Tom Doak nominates Streamsong.  

[Bill_McBride]

I do think that everyone gets way to hung up on bunker shape as the defining element of sand-belt courses.  Not only do the bunker shapes vary enourmously from hole to hole and course to course but there are several elements that far better define the courses IMO.  

These include:
-tight lies - it's very hard to get the club under the ball on any shot from the fairway.
-closely mown areas around the greens.  bump and run, chips and putts from off the green come into play
-short par 4s, most sandbelt courses have at least one really good short par 4.  
-lack of thick rough.  
-reasonable fairway widths.


When looking at these factors I think Pacific Dunes and Bandon Trails are two of the most Australian courses I have played in the US.  It was interesting talking to the US visitors at Bandon talking about how much they have to adjust their game to play there whereas for the Australian visitors, little adjustment is needed.  

Given the architects of these two courses, no surprise that Tom Doak nominates Streamsong.  

The list above also reminds me very much of Chechessee Creek in South Carolina's low country.  We played two rounds there last month in the Dixie Cup.  I commented at the time that the place felt very much like an English heathland course to me.   Since I've not made the journey down under yet, I don't know how it would compare to Sandbelt courses, but it does meet the criteria above.

Here's Ran's profile:  http://www.golfclubatlas.com/courses-by-country/usa/chechessee-creek/

[David Davis]

David,

I don't disagree with your list if you add the bunkering to it. However, none of the sandbelt courses are links courses, Bandon/Pac/Old Mac are similar to UK and Irish links courses perhaps but not that similar to sandbelt courses in my opinion. Unless the only thing valid is the tight lies and sand based ground. Bandon trails is far too undulated and mountainous greens could also not be considered remotely similar nor could any of the vegetation.

Sandbelt in my opinion is unlike anything I've played in the US, course I've not played it all (which is a key fault in my story). If anything they could be similar to some of the great heathland courses in the UK, however, in my experience the ground is far harder and the greens much much faster. Plus there is to my recollection no heather in the sandbelt.

[Sean_A]

The first thing I think about when pondering Sand Belt courses is f&f conditions with a bit of a rough and ready look.  Secondly I think of the interplay between bunkers and greens.  Are there courses in the US which replicate this?  While the visual style is very different, I was thinking along the lines of Yeamans Hall.  I imagine being quite firm in season and it has the added feature and there is (I imagine) a certain likeness in the bunker/green relationship to to Sand Belters.  Of course, this is all guess work.

Ciao

[Ian Andrew]

Only Maidstone and Fishers Island ever felt close. The reason for this is both allow the rough to be whatever does or does not grow without inputs. Both simply fade into the surroundings as they go from fairway turf out to the edges of what is still maintained.

[Adam Makepeace]

The native Australian vegetation in the rough and around the bunkers largely contributes to the look and feel. The principles of design can be replicated, however the native vegetation is obviously more difficult.

[Mac Plumart]

Riviera

[Scott Warren]

The US course I have played that most reminds me of golf in Australia is The Valley Club of Montecito.

[jonathan_becker]

The US course I have played that most reminds me of golf in Australia is The Valley Club of Montecito.

Ahhh, you beat me to it!

[Bruce Wellmon]

The list above also reminds me very much of Chechessee Creek in South Carolina's low country.  We played two rounds there last month in the Dixie Cup.  I commented at the time that the place felt very much like an English heathland course to me.   Since I've not made the journey down under yet, I don't know how it would compare to Sandbelt courses, but it does meet the criteria above.

Bill,
    Perhaps, BUT it isn't  F&F.
                                         Bruce   

[Mike_Clayton]

Mac

Riviera isn't too much like a sandbelt course - but it is remarkably like golf north of the harbour bridge in Sydney. Riviera is on a completely different plane architecturally but the trees, the kikuyu and the undulations are almost the same.

Alister MacKenzie transformed golf in Melbourne and had an influence in other parts of the country. If George Thomas had been able to work in Sydney - specifically north of the bridge -  he could have had a similar transformative influence.. The land is really good but the architecture misses.

[Bart Bradley]

I am going out on a limb here.  Nothing I have seen in the US is anything like Royal Melbourne.  Nothing.

Bart

[Scott Warren]

Mike,

I reckon Flynn won have been the man for Sydney, based on how he handled the steep terrain at Rolling Green and Lancaster.