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Joe Leenheer

  • Karma: +0/-0
Only 4 more years
« on: November 12, 2012, 11:15:50 PM »
until the US Open returns to it's home at Oakmont!

2013 - Merion
2014 - Pinehurst #2
2015 - Chambers Bay
2016 - Oakmont
2017 - Erin Hills
2018 - Shinnecock
2019 - Pebble Beach

Call me crazy (and you won't be the first to do it) but I love US Open golf.  I love the tips.  I love long, penal rough.  I love super fast, rock hard greens. I love the grind.

I am really excited about 5 out of 7 of these venues.  Chambers Bay looks promising, but I'm not a big fan of newbies.  Erin Hills.....I could do without. 

Winning the US Open at Oakmont, IMO, equates to winning The Open at TOC.

What's your favorite US Open venue and why?  What's the best US Open venue architecturally?

apologies for those who got excited and thought this was another political thread :-)
Never let the quality of your game determine the quality of your time spent playing it.

Patrick_Mucci

Re: Only 4 more years
« Reply #1 on: November 12, 2012, 11:24:09 PM »
Joe,

Shinnecock, Shinnecock and Shinnecock !

Ben Sims

  • Karma: +1/-0
Re: Only 4 more years
« Reply #2 on: November 12, 2012, 11:50:05 PM »
Best US Open golf course = Oakmont

Best golf course that has a US Open = probably something else

Mark Chaplin

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Only 4 more years
« Reply #3 on: November 13, 2012, 03:48:11 AM »
Joe to win on TOC demands vision, shotmaking, finese and a deft touch. High soft shots, low runners, etc, etc how does Oakmont match these attributes?
Cave Nil Vino

Jud_T

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Only 4 more years
« Reply #4 on: November 13, 2012, 09:43:36 AM »
Pinehurst is easily the one I'm most anxious to see off this list.
Golf is a game. We play it. Somewhere along the way we took the fun out of it and charged a premium to be punished.- - Ron Sirak

Bryan Lewis

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Only 4 more years
« Reply #5 on: November 13, 2012, 11:18:45 AM »
until the US Open returns to it's home at Oakmont!

2013 - Merion
2014 - Pinehurst #2
2015 - Chambers Bay
2016 - Oakmont
2017 - Erin Hills
2018 - Shinnecock
2019 - Pebble Beach

Call me crazy (and you won't be the first to do it) but I love US Open golf.  I love the tips.  I love long, penal rough.  I love super fast, rock hard greens. I love the grind.

Joe,

You're not alone!  When you look at that list, it is interesting how diverse those courses are.  You won't confuse any one for another.  I could go along with Oakmont being the best US Open venue, or at least the standard to judge others.  When the US Amateur was there it was the hardest golf course I have ever seen.  I think it was harder that week than it was for the US Open a few years later.

Josh Tarble

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Only 4 more years
« Reply #6 on: November 13, 2012, 11:24:34 AM »
Pinehurst is easily the one I'm most anxious to see off this list.

I can't wait to see Pinehurst as well.   

The 2014 US Open could potentially have a broad impact on maintenance practices and the golf course industry in general.  I'm hopeful that the course is fast firm and brown and it really challenges the professionals to a degree that many golf courses rethink what their best practices are.

ChipRoyce

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Only 4 more years
« Reply #7 on: November 13, 2012, 11:28:10 AM »
Pinehurst is easily the one I'm most anxious to see off this list.

I can't wait to see Pinehurst as well.   

The 2014 US Open could potentially have a broad impact on maintenance practices and the golf course industry in general.  I'm hopeful that the course is fast firm and brown and it really challenges the professionals to a degree that many golf courses rethink what their best practices are.

Josh;
I agree on the potential impact of a few of the venues (Pinehurst, Chambers Bay, etc...) on agronomy practices around the US (move away from Green, Lush and encumbered by trees).
Is the USGA Exec Committee still as committed to fast, firm & brown as it was during the tenure of Jim Hyler? That seemed to be a cornerstone of his presidency, Haven't noticed the same rhetoric recently.

Jason Thurman

  • Karma: +1/-0
Re: Only 4 more years
« Reply #8 on: November 13, 2012, 11:41:17 AM »
I've played three of the next seven courses, and I'm excited about them all.

Pinehurst because it's so complex around the greens and I want to see how the crowns and contours come into play over 4 rounds. Seeing the course over two days in person only gave me a taste of how different putts and pitches to different pin positions would play. I'm also, like everyone else, interested to see how the best players in the world will deal with the new look and presentation. I'm optimistic that it can prove as exacting as any other venue, but worry about what happens if the lack of rough means that hot ballstrikers can obliterate the course from such tight lies. I really have no idea what will happen.

Erin Hills because it's brutally tough but also very flexible. Depending on setup, the low round for a given day could be anywhere between -1 and -9. If the wind blows and the tournament is a grind, I wonder if we'll see a late-round meltdown like Patrick Cantlay's on 15 in the amateur. I also hope that such a raw looking course translates well to television. A successful Open at Erin Hills is just as big a victory for fast, firm, and a little brown as one at Pinehurst could be.

Finally, Pebble because I don't think there's another US Open course where the ambience of the setting comes through as clearly even on TV. It's just a special place to play. I disagree with Oakmont as The Old Course of the US Open. Oakmont is the Carnoustie, but Pebble Beach is The Old Course. It's the flagship course instantly recognizable to even the casual viewer with a birdie hole for a closer and a completely unique vibe, even if it's not the toughest in the rota.
"There will always be haters. That’s just the way it is. Hating dudes marry hating women and have hating ass kids." - Evan Turner

Some of y'all have never been called out in bold green font and it really shows.

Matthew Essig

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Only 4 more years
« Reply #9 on: November 13, 2012, 03:19:09 PM »
Not a weak course on the list. Just awesome venues. The US open has a grand future in front of it. The year gaps between tournaments will show how impatient I am for things that I adore.

"Good GCA should offer an interesting golfing challenge to the golfer not a difficult golfing challenge." Jon Wiggett

Joe Leenheer

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Only 4 more years
« Reply #10 on: November 13, 2012, 11:12:19 PM »
Joe to win on TOC demands vision, shotmaking, finese and a deft touch. High soft shots, low runners, etc, etc how does Oakmont match these attributes?

I have not had the good fortune to tee it at TOC, but I can tell you that all of those are needed at Oakmont tenfold.  Not to mention you better be able to hit it a country mile on a line.
Never let the quality of your game determine the quality of your time spent playing it.

Joe Leenheer

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Only 4 more years
« Reply #11 on: November 15, 2012, 12:26:27 AM »
I've played three of the next seven courses, and I'm excited about them all.

Pinehurst because it's so complex around the greens and I want to see how the crowns and contours come into play over 4 rounds. Seeing the course over two days in person only gave me a taste of how different putts and pitches to different pin positions would play. I'm also, like everyone else, interested to see how the best players in the world will deal with the new look and presentation. I'm optimistic that it can prove as exacting as any other venue, but worry about what happens if the lack of rough means that hot ballstrikers can obliterate the course from such tight lies. I really have no idea what will happen.

Erin Hills because it's brutally tough but also very flexible. Depending on setup, the low round for a given day could be anywhere between -1 and -9. If the wind blows and the tournament is a grind, I wonder if we'll see a late-round meltdown like Patrick Cantlay's on 15 in the amateur. I also hope that such a raw looking course translates well to television. A successful Open at Erin Hills is just as big a victory for fast, firm, and a little brown as one at Pinehurst could be.

Finally, Pebble because I don't think there's another US Open course where the ambience of the setting comes through as clearly even on TV. It's just a special place to play. I disagree with Oakmont as The Old Course of the US Open. Oakmont is the Carnoustie, but Pebble Beach is The Old Course. It's the flagship course instantly recognizable to even the casual viewer with a birdie hole for a closer and a completely unique vibe, even if it's not the toughest in the rota.

I've played 3 out of those 7 as well (hopefully 4 come spring of 2013).  Hard to argue that Pebble is the quintessential US Open course as I do love those links.  But having played the two...Oakmont is by far the greater test (not factoring in weather conditions). 

US Opens at either venue...

Winning scores:

2010: Even Par (Pebble) McDowell
2007: +5 (Oakmont) Cabrera
2000: -12 (Pebble) Woods
1994: -5 (Oakmont) Els
1992: -3 (Pebble) Kite
1983: -4 (Oakmont) Nelson
1982: -6 (Pebble) Watson
1973: -5 (Oakmont) Miller
1972: +2 (Pebble) Nicklaus
1962: -1 (Oakmont) Nicklaus


1953: -5 (Oakmont) Hogan
1935: +15 (Oakmont) Parks Jr.
1927: +17 (Oakmont) Armour

So starting in 1972 when Pebble was finally introduced to the US Open rotation the score is Pebble -19 to Oakmont's -10....thanks to Tiger. 

Considering Oakmont will host it's record 9th US Open in 2016 I have to say it is the home of US Open Golf.  I don't think you could show many photo's of TOC to a non golfer and they would immediately know it was TOC.  Argumentatively, you could not do this with Oakmont either.  Pebble is very commercial, but unless you are a golfer you would probably not recognize any of them.  If you are a golfer you would more then likely recognize Pebble 1st, and Oakmont & TOC would be T-2.

Never let the quality of your game determine the quality of your time spent playing it.

Phil McDade

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Only 4 more years
« Reply #12 on: November 15, 2012, 08:39:51 AM »
Joe:

I'd go Oakmont, Shinnecock and Pebble Beach -- maybe not in that order, but maybe; it's hard for me to distinguish which of the three is the best US Open test, because they offer different tests.

Shinnecock is about as linksy as a US Open will get, particularly if the wind is up as it often is in June out there. Players just don't see that type of US Open set-up that often -- extremely fast and firm (sometimes too much so ;)), and it remains a great test of golf. I'm fairly convinced (my own little theory...) that the re-introduction of Shinnecock to the US Open rota in 1986 set off the interest here in finding land that could replicate what Shinnecock offered in terms of a links-like experience, and thus we saw the development of Bandon, the Nebraska Sand Hills courses, et al.

Pebble is on my list because it has about a half-dozen of the very best holes on the planet to test the caliber of US Open players. And it's just great looking on TV, a factor for me at least. I also don't think you can divorce the typical conditions of Pebble in June from its worthiness as a US Open venue -- Pebble in February is very different than Pebble in June, and the very fast and firm conditions you get there in early summer are part and parcel of its appeal (to me) as a US Open course. To me, Pebble is the one US Open course where conditions can get right on the edge -- and sometimes topple over -- in terms of severely punishing the best players on the planet (like the final round in 1992, when no one shot under 70).

But Oakmont is also the one course that, hole after hole, epitomizes what the US Open should be about -- a very difficult test, where par is an accomplishment, birdies come about because of exceptional play (not some shrunken, option-oriented Mike Davis bastardization of a hole), and bogeys are likely with even the slightest of misplays or mis-judgements. It can be set up to be very penal, with little relief, and greens that confound everywhere. It's what a US Open course should be like.

Jason Thurman

  • Karma: +1/-0
Re: Only 4 more years
« Reply #13 on: November 15, 2012, 09:13:05 AM »
Joe, we'll just have to disagree. I don't question at all that Oakmont is tougher, just like I don't question at all that Carnoustie is tougher than St. Andrews. But I don't see any case to be made that it's the flagship US Open course in the way that St. Andrews is the flagship Open Championship course.

Now, if you think it's the BEST US Open course and the most demanding test, I agree. I just don't think it's the course that most fans or players of the US Open think of when they think of the "signature course" of the rota. Maybe we're just talking about two different things.
"There will always be haters. That’s just the way it is. Hating dudes marry hating women and have hating ass kids." - Evan Turner

Some of y'all have never been called out in bold green font and it really shows.

Josh Tarble

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Only 4 more years
« Reply #14 on: November 15, 2012, 10:55:53 AM »
I hear what you're saying Jason...also when comparing PB and Oakmont, you can't forget PB is a public course.  Arguably the greatest championship test open to the public.

Joe Leenheer

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Only 4 more years
« Reply #15 on: November 21, 2012, 01:01:00 AM »
4 out of the 7 courses are National Landmarks.  Can you guess which 4?
Never let the quality of your game determine the quality of your time spent playing it.

Matthew Essig

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Only 4 more years
« Reply #16 on: November 21, 2012, 09:07:21 PM »
4 out of the 7 courses are National Landmarks.  Can you guess which 4?

Is that a rhetorical question?
"Good GCA should offer an interesting golfing challenge to the golfer not a difficult golfing challenge." Jon Wiggett

Steve Burrows

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Only 4 more years
« Reply #17 on: November 21, 2012, 11:18:43 PM »
4 out of the 7 courses are National Landmarks.  Can you guess which 4?

The golf courses at Merion and Oakmont, as well as the significance of the events that have transpired on their fields of play, are crucial to their status as National Historic Landmarks. Conversely, if you read the nomination form (link is shown below), you will see that the golf courses are an almost negligible part of the reason for Pinehurst's inclusion on this list.  The land plan (designed by a former associate of Frederick Law Olmsted) and the historic buildings are privileged.

http://www.villageofpinehurst.org/Portals/0/Planning/NHL%20Nomination.pdf

I am curious about the fourth one, however.  I know that the Stanford White designed clubhouse at Shinnecock is on the National Register of Historic Places, but that is different than being a "Landmark."  Has a new nomination been considered?  Pebble Beach is the obvious other, but I am not at all familiar with their status.
...to admit my mistakes most frankly, or to say simply what I believe to be necessary for the defense of what I have written, without introducing the explanation of any new matter so as to avoid engaging myself in endless discussion from one topic to another.     
               -Rene Descartes

Jay Flemma

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Only 4 more years
« Reply #18 on: November 22, 2012, 11:44:31 AM »
Great thread, absolutely LOVE Oakmont.  It's my favorite major venue.  Can't wait to see my fave venue in my fave city - Pittsburgh! Go Steelers! (and Penguins!)
Mackenzie, MacRayBanks, Maxwell, Doak, Dye, Strantz. @JayGolfUSA, GNN Radio Host of Jay's Plays www.cybergolf.com/writerscorner

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