Better closing hole: Old Mac or Chambers Bay

[Emile Bonfiglio]

Strictly from a play stand point, not about views/scenery, which hole is better as a closing hole?  I like a par 5 closing hole, but I love the green and of Old Mac.

[Matthew Essig]

I would give the edge to Old Mac only because "Chambers Basement" tarnished the 18th hole at Chambers Bay.

[Tom_Doak]

Depends on what you're after.  If you want a challenging championship finish, you can have the one at Chambers Bay.  If you want to walk off the course smiling, I'd recommend Old Macdonald's finisher.

[Terry Lavin]

Depends on what you're after.  If you want a challenging championship finish, you can have the one at Chambers Bay.  If you want to walk off the course smiling, I'd recommend Old Macdonald's finisher.

The latter, of course, is what the 99% want.

[JLahrman]

Depends on what you're after.  If you want a challenging championship finish, you can have the one at Chambers Bay.  If you want to walk off the course smiling, I'd recommend Old Macdonald's finisher.

Depends on the time of year. I know you said that OM was designed with the summer wind in mind...but the one time I played OM it was into the winter wind. I bashed my best drive of the day and still had a 3-iron in. And I'm not a short hitter.

[John Kirk]

Depends on what you're after.  If you want a challenging championship finish, you can have the one at Chambers Bay.  If you want to walk off the course smiling, I'd recommend Old Macdonald's finisher.

Depends on the time of year. I know you said that OM was designed with the summer wind in mind...but the one time I played OM it was into the winter wind. I bashed my best drive of the day and still had a 3-iron in. And I'm not a short hitter.

JLahrman,

I don't understand your comment.

My question is "And you weren't smiling because?"

[Ross Harmon]

I haven't seen / played Chambers Bay, but I absolutely love Old Mac's closing hole. Except for the last time I played it when I three-putted that green. 

[John Kirk]

I am not familiar enough with Chambers Bay's 18th green to have a strong opinion.  My recollection is of a very sloped green, actually similar to Old Macdonald 18th green, in which the back left is way above the middle and right front of the green, a hole where a ball can be played long, only to roll back close to a pin near the fronting bunker.  Is that right?

[JLahrman]

JLahrman,

I don't understand your comment.

My question is "And you weren't smiling because?"

I was replying more to the suggestion that OM's 18th isn't a "challenging championship finish".

[John Kirk]

Thanks.  In my opinion, Old Macdonald #18 has a design which makes about as easy an a 470 yard hole can be.  It requires a long second shot in most cases, but there's a huge margin of error, as balls tend to funnel down onto a relatively small portion of the large green.

[William_G]

Old Mac!

Love the punch bowl green with a background of a stand of trees.

Addditionally, you can walk off the green past the starter you saw a few hours ago and say thank you. 

[John Ezekowitz]

Depends on what you're after.  If you want a challenging championship finish, you can have the one at Chambers Bay.  If you want to walk off the course smiling, I'd recommend Old Macdonald's finisher.

Depends on the time of year. I know you said that OM was designed with the summer wind in mind...but the one time I played OM it was into the winter wind. I bashed my best drive of the day and still had a 3-iron in. And I'm not a short hitter.

Agreed. I hit driver 4-iron all three times I played the hole into the winter wind (in May!). It was anything but easy.

[John Kirk]

It might be easier if you have a 3- or 4-wood versus a 3- or 4-iron.  It's much easier to hit a low sliding fade with a long wood, and everything feeds down.  The long iron compels you to fly it over the mounds.

We need more input on #18 Chambers Bay here.  It's not a very difficult hole, if I recall correctly.

Here are the stats from the USGA archive:

Chambers Bay #18 listed at 604 yards, average score was 4.920, 3rd easiest hole, 2nd hardest par 5 (#8 harder, #4 easier).

For your information, #11 played harder, averaging 5.029 at 539 yards.

They plan on having tees to play both #1 and #18 as either a 500 yard par 4 or a 600 yard par 5.

Like I said, I think the green is kind of similar, concave and very high on the back left.


http://www.golferswest.com/destinations/chambers-to-modify-par-on-two-holes/

[Tiger_Bernhardt]

I like closing hole at Old Mac better. It is tough call though.

[JLahrman]

Thanks.  In my opinion, Old Macdonald #18 has a design which makes about as easy an a 470 yard hole can be.  It requires a long second shot in most cases, but there's a huge margin of error, as balls tend to funnel down onto a relatively small portion of the large green.

When I hit driver-3 iron I was playing the 426 tees. A good driver for me is maybe 270 and my 3-iron from the fairway is about 215.

[Pete_Pittock]

I would give the edge to Old Mac only because "Chambers Basement" tarnished the 18th hole at Chambers Bay.

Why wouldn't they call the bunker Chamber's Pot?

An argument in favor of Chambers Bay. The green is a little bit more difficult to putt between sections, but that is because it appears the left side of the green at Old Macdonald is not pinned during normal play. If the whole green at Bandon is used then it is a tossup.

[Matthew Essig]

Depends on what you're after.  If you want a challenging championship finish, you can have the one at Chambers Bay.  If you want to walk off the course smiling, I'd recommend Old Macdonald's finisher.

Depends on the time of year. I know you said that OM was designed with the summer wind in mind...but the one time I played OM it was into the winter wind. I bashed my best drive of the day and still had a 3-iron in. And I'm not a short hitter.

Agreed. I hit driver 4-iron all three times I played the hole into the winter wind (in May!). It was anything but easy.

I would have to agree that the 18th hole at Old Mac is too hard with a winter wind. Last April, I was unable to reach the 18th green in 2. If you are wondering how far I hit the ball, with the light winter wind, I drove it over 13.

[Adam Clayman]

How the heck does what club someone hits into the green, affect the quality of the hole?

The OM hole has so much freedom, and the fact that it's a huge punchbowl, with a severe rear back stop, allows for infinite creative shot possibilities.

Chambers Bay, not so much.   

[John Ezekowitz]

How the heck does what club someone hits into the green, affect the quality of the hole?

The OM hole has so much freedom, and the fact that it's a huge punchbowl, with a severe rear back stop, allows for infinite creative shot possibilities.

Chambers Bay, not so much.   

It does not affect the quality of the hole per se, but it affects the claim that it is always easier to leave the course smiling (because of the 18th). Trying to hit a 190 yard shot that plays 220 with the wind in your face is a challenge regardless of the contours around the green. It requires a supremely well-struck shot just to get it to the feeder slope, whose playing characteristics (at least on a second shot) are diminished into the wind.

I am not arguing that OM 18 is not a good/great hole, I'm just saying that into the wind, it is a bear.

[Garland Bayley]

I would give the edge to Old Mac only because "Chambers Basement" tarnished the 18th hole at Chambers Bay.

+1

[Garland Bayley]

Depends on what you're after.  If you want a challenging championship finish, you can have the one at Chambers Bay.  If you want to walk off the course smiling, I'd recommend Old Macdonald's finisher.

Sorry, but 18 at Chambers Bay makes me smile far more than Old MacDonald. Perhaps what many people forget is that the longer the club the more erratic the high handicapper becomes. This helps explain why in most GCA events I have played where Jordan Wall participated with his 1 handicap that this 22 handicapper has matched him in the number of birdies. Probably because I am nearly as accurate with the short clubs as he is.

18 at Chambers Bay made Kalen smile at the GRUDGE MATCH, as he birdied it after losing 2 and 1 on the 17th.

[JLahrman]

How the heck does what club someone hits into the green, affect the quality of the hole?

The OM hole has so much freedom, and the fact that it's a huge punchbowl, with a severe rear back stop, allows for infinite creative shot possibilities.

Chambers Bay, not so much.   

I don't think anyone is talking about the quality of the hole, just the idea that it's not challenging.

[Jay Flemma]

I like Chambers Basement!  But then again, I like wicked, nasty bunkers.  It's not a pot...it's humungous, but with really steep sides!

[John Kirk]

Thanks for the picture, Jay.  I had forgotten about that bunker.  Is there somebody here who doesn't like it?  That looks pretty cool to me, and a candidate for Ran's ancient gathering bunkers thread currently on page 1.

[Garland Bayley]

I like Chambers Basement!  But then again, I like wicked, nasty bunkers.  It's not a pot...it's humungous, but with really steep sides!

This stupid picture clearly shows how out of character with the rest of the course that stupid bunker is. Why do we need a bunker to keep the pros from hitting it exactly where we hackers will be trying to hit it?