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Duncan Cheslett

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Most Schizophrenic Golf Course?
« on: October 26, 2012, 01:57:42 AM »
Inevitably many courses have one nine that is perceived to be 'better' than the other. But how many courses have a terrible front nine followed by a superb back? Or vice versa?

Yesterday I played Mottram Hall, A De Vere Hotels course in Cheshire. Mugging up beforehand from Mark Rowlinson's 'Golf Courses of Cheshire' I should have been prepared; out of all the courses reviewed in his book, this is the only one where he simply glosses over half a course rather give a detailed hole by hole account.

I cannot describe the tedium, the dreariness, the almost total lack of features or interest in that front nine. Clearly neither could Mark! The intervening twenty years have done nothing to improve things. Had I not been playing with a friend who is a member there I would have walked in halfway round. Even the presentation was lousy, which surprised me for a corporate hotel venue. Think down at heel municipal. The only positives were the firm and (relatively) fast fairways and greens.

But then we walked to the tenth!

Suddenly things moved up not just one or two, but ten gears! There followed six or seven of the most glorious, uplifting golf holes I have ever played. Sweeping roller-coaster fairways though a forested landscape where trees rarely intrude on play but give a majestic backdrop to truly interesting, testing and strategic golf. The climax is reached at the 17th, as extaordinary a hole as you will find anywhere, before the golfer is dumped unloved on the same dull tract of land housing the front nine for the long sad trudge back along the 18th to the clubhouse.

Mottram Hall sets the bar for the most schizophrenic golf course. Can anybody better it?
« Last Edit: October 26, 2012, 02:29:21 AM by Duncan Cheslett »

Pat Burke

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Re: Course with the Biggest Contrast Between Front & Back Nines?
« Reply #1 on: October 26, 2012, 02:08:44 AM »
Manasquan River CC

Rolling tree lined front nine
Back nine flat, waterfront

Played a long time ago, but thats how I remember it

Jon Wiggett

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Re: Most Schizophrenic Golf Course?
« Reply #2 on: October 26, 2012, 02:59:33 AM »
Middleton Park in one of the Leeds municipal courses. Originally 9 holes set in mature parkland which a excellent it was extended into 18 in 1979ish through the introduction of 9 holes built on arable quagmire.

Jon
« Last Edit: October 26, 2012, 04:07:45 AM by Jon Wiggett »

Neil White

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Re: Most Schizophrenic Golf Course?
« Reply #3 on: October 26, 2012, 03:46:14 AM »
Porthmadog.

Mark Pearce

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Re: Most Schizophrenic Golf Course?
« Reply #4 on: October 26, 2012, 04:11:37 AM »
I know someone is going to mention Pacific Grove in this thread. I am probably the only person in history to play the FRONT nine at PC and not the back...
Wow.  How did that happen?  I played there on an evening and cut out the middle of the front 9 so that I could get the back 9 in before dark.
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Ben Stephens

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Re: Most Schizophrenic Golf Course?
« Reply #5 on: October 26, 2012, 05:47:05 AM »
Orton Meadows in Peterborough - The front nine is a cracker (would have been miles better if it was looked after better as well as refurbishing the bunkers and tees) the back nine is over 1000 yards shorter and a poorer reflection of the front nine.

Chapel en le Frith is the most schizo course I have played - the 1st two holes are poor in my view and then the next 5 holes are part of the original course which are fun to play on and then the last 2 are similar to the first 2 and then a completely different back nine. It would have been a real fun course if the rest of the 18 were like the middle 5 holes on the front nine.

Cheers
Ben

Mark_Rowlinson

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Re: Most Schizophrenic Golf Course?
« Reply #6 on: October 26, 2012, 06:31:48 AM »
Abersoch - original nine holes beautiful among the dunes. New nine holes dreary meadowland.

Interesting that Mottram and Chapel are both Dave Thomas courses.

Dunham Forest is also a bit oddball, with fine holes running through the woods and some dull holes out in the open overlooking Carrington refineries.

Hazel Grove is also schizo.

Jeff_Brauer

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Re: Most Schizophrenic Golf Course?
« Reply #7 on: October 26, 2012, 08:34:28 AM »
Wouldn't call it the most Cybil of courses, but among the great courses, Crystal Downs with its two nines by Mac and then more Maxwell are quite different.

The first five and last 13 at Spyglass come to mind.  If Cypress Point didn't weave in and out of its various areas (ocean, dunes, woods) it might be a bit unbalanced as well.

I am sure there are many among the lesser lights that are half flat and open and half wooded, for example.
Jeff Brauer, ASGCA Director of Outreach

Sean_A

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Re: Most Schizophrenic Golf Course?
« Reply #8 on: October 26, 2012, 08:38:56 AM »
New plays planned for 2024:Winterfield, Alnmouth, Camden, Palmetto Bluff Crossroads Course, Colleton River Dye Course  & Old Barnwell

Adam Clayman

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Re: Most Schizophrenic Golf Course?
« Reply #9 on: October 26, 2012, 08:52:05 AM »
There's tons of course that have benign fronts and character filled backs. It's justified when there's a higher percentage of mature members. Think Palm Springs.

I wouldn't call Crystal, Kingsley, PG, Spy, or High Pointe Schizo. All things are not equal. The terrains are different, and, so the course changes it's "feel", but that ain't schizo.
"It's unbelievable how much you don't know about the game you've been playing your whole life." - Mickey Mantle

Dan Boerger

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Re: Most Schizophrenic Golf Course?
« Reply #10 on: October 26, 2012, 09:12:42 AM »
Thendara in Old Forge NY. A Donald Ross front 9 (how much Ross still there up for debate I'm told) ... a true parkland feel, some really fine greens. Back 9 more narrow than a bowling lane -- seemingly designed by the Adirondack Park Commission, who abhors the removal of virtually any tree in the park.
"Man should practice moderation in all things, including moderation."  Mark Twain

Tim Gavrich

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Re: Most Schizophrenic Golf Course?
« Reply #11 on: October 26, 2012, 09:18:08 AM »
Laurel View CC in Hamden, CT is up there for me. The front nine is solid, fun Cornish stuff and the back is built on a bit of land that is a bit severe for golf, so you get a 5 iron-wedge 10th hole followed by a par 5 11th whose fairway is benched into the middle of a very severe hill from high-left to low-right and is about 17 yards wide at the widest. The 12th and 13th are fine, but then more crummy stuff from 14-18. The front nine is so wide open that turning for home is pretty miserable.
Senior Writer, GolfPass

Josh Tarble

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Re: Most Schizophrenic Golf Course?
« Reply #12 on: October 26, 2012, 09:19:09 AM »
Harbor Shores in Michigan.  

Basically, its a totally un-walkable nightmare of a routing, with the first three holes on some flatish land by the club house, next three are in and around some wetlands, the next four are up in some dunes along the lake, next 4 are up in some rolling hills that are pretty severe and the final four are played along a river.

Not to mention each section is roughly 500 yards to 1/2 mile from each other.  Individually all of the holes are pretty good, but as an entire course it is the most bizarre routing I've ever played.

Mark McKeever

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Re: Most Schizophrenic Golf Course?
« Reply #13 on: October 26, 2012, 09:38:36 AM »
Kennett Square has 9 really good Ross holes and 9 more that I'm not crazy about.

Mark
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"Dude, he's a total d***"

Jay Flemma

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Re: Most Schizophrenic Golf Course?
« Reply #14 on: October 26, 2012, 09:55:02 AM »
Thendara in Old Forge is a good choice, Dan, as is Center Valley in PA.  Totally different nines.
Mackenzie, MacRayBanks, Maxwell, Doak, Dye, Strantz. @JayGolfUSA, GNN Radio Host of Jay's Plays www.cybergolf.com/writerscorner

Jim Colton

Re: Most Schizophrenic Golf Course?
« Reply #15 on: October 26, 2012, 10:43:20 AM »
Schizophrenic carries a negative connotation, so I hesitate to bring this one up. Given the different personalities involved, might Sebonack fit the bill?


Keith OHalloran

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Re: Most Schizophrenic Golf Course?
« Reply #16 on: October 26, 2012, 11:14:41 AM »
I am not sure that either nine is "bad" but Eashampton Golf Club has a nine that is completely links style, and then you cross a road and the back nine is tree lined with elevation changes. It is like 2 different golf clubs.

Mark McKeever

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Re: Most Schizophrenic Golf Course?
« Reply #17 on: October 26, 2012, 11:16:31 AM »
Thendara in Old Forge is a good choice, Dan, as is Center Valley in PA.  Totally different nines.

Center Valley is NLE.

mark
Best MGA showers - Bayonne

"Dude, he's a total d***"

Duncan Cheslett

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Re: Most Schizophrenic Golf Course?
« Reply #18 on: October 26, 2012, 01:11:07 PM »
Tenby's another one that struck me - I walked it last year (weather too bad to play) and it looked fantastic - right up until the last 4 holes tacked on at the end in a boggy field. What a massive let down at the end of the round.

I spent a week at Tenby this year and greatly enjoyed playing the course each morning. I quickly learned to play it as a 15 hole course however - leaving out the three 'meadowland' holes and heading straight from the 14th green to the adjacent 18th tee.

I was not the only one...




Jason Connor

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Re: Most Schizophrenic Golf Course?
« Reply #19 on: October 26, 2012, 01:43:00 PM »
Pacific Grove immediately came to mind, but I don't think it's eligible since it actually started as two different 9-hole courses. 
We discovered that in good company there is no such thing as a bad golf course.  - James Dodson

Tim Leahy

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Re: Most Schizophrenic Golf Course?
« Reply #20 on: October 26, 2012, 02:26:18 PM »
How about Spyglass Hill? Not that the rest of the course is bad but after the first five holes the rest of the course is almost boring from a visual standpoint.
I love golf, the fightin irish, and beautiful women depending on the season and availability.

Dan Kelly

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Re: Most Schizophrenic Golf Course?
« Reply #21 on: October 26, 2012, 02:55:48 PM »
The course with the pair of most dissimilar nines I've played -- I like both nines -- is Big Fish, in Hayward, Wisconsin (Tim Liddy/Pete Dye).

Front WIDE open and pretty flat. Back snaking up and down through the North Woods.
"There's no money in doing less." -- Joe Hancock, 11/25/2010
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Yancey_Beamer

Re: Most Schizophrenic Golf Course?
« Reply #22 on: October 26, 2012, 07:12:11 PM »
Bodega Bay in California.
Part of the course is routed up, over and down the side of a  cliff.The 17th hole is played over the sea to a sandbar island with a green at the end of the island.Then to the 18th back on the mainland. I never drive up the coast without playing that odd but truly fun course.

Austin Wade

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Re: Most Schizophrenic Golf Course?
« Reply #23 on: October 26, 2012, 10:15:15 PM »
Two courses that I've played here recently that come to mind are Maggie Valley Country Club and the Asheville Muni.  They aren't Schizo in a negative way, but both courses have very flat open front 9's, with tighter back 9's with a large amount of elevation change.  A couple other than come to mind are Highlands Reserve outside of Orlando and Pinecrest at Lotela in Avon Park, Fl.  Highlands Reserve's first 3 holes weave through tight Pine trees, before heading out into a very open setting.  The back 9 begins and ends int he pine trees, holes 12-17 are once again in a more open setting. 

The Ross 9 at Pinecrest is one of my favorite of my (limited) Ross's I have played.  The other 9 doesn't hold a candle to it. 


Duncan Cheslett

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Re: Most Schizophrenic Golf Course?
« Reply #24 on: October 27, 2012, 02:02:04 AM »
Tenby's another one that struck me - I walked it last year (weather too bad to play) and it looked fantastic - right up until the last 4 holes tacked on at the end in a boggy field. What a massive let down at the end of the round.

I spent a week at Tenby this year and greatly enjoyed playing the course each morning. I quickly learned to play it as a 15 hole course however - leaving out the three 'meadowland' holes and heading straight from the 14th green to the adjacent 18th tee.

I was not the only one...





Nice trick. Even though it was lashing rain and howling wind as we walked it, we were really impressed with the other 15 holes - particularly up to around the 12th or so. I don't know why they don't just call it a quirky 15 hole course and accept it for what it is.


The daft thing is that the club has a decent area of linksland behind the clubhouse that is plenty big enough for a couple of holes. It is currently a practice area and 3-hole pitch and putt course, but this image from 2009 suggests that it was until recently a proper hole.



There is also ample room out on the course proper for a hole or two enabling them to have 18 genuine links holes instead of using the boggy field they lease from the adjacent caravan site. Why not use that for the practice ground?
« Last Edit: October 27, 2012, 02:07:18 AM by Duncan Cheslett »

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