Volcano greens, are they extinct ?

[Patrick_Mucci]

Volcano green may not be the ideal description.

I'm referencing those greens which are substantially elevated, with rather sharp, severe fall off on most sides, usually into bunkers or depressions.

The 5th at Nassau would be an example, as would the 7th at Montclair's 4th nine and the 3rd at Mountain Ridge.  
"Short" holes typically had this configuration.

They are clearly artificial or manufactured.

In playing modern golf courses I don't seem to recall playing any.

Why don't we see more of these greens, which can provide fun and a great challenge at the shortest of lengths, especially when coupled with an interesting green contour ?

[Joe Hancock]

15th hole at Pilgrim's Run, par 3 (DeVries).

Joe

[A_Clay_Man]

How about a 200 yd short hole? To a volcano table top with steep sides all the way around. And a tree placed 70 yds from the tee guarding the left. It exists and was built within the last 4 yrs.. So, the answer is not extinct.

And the completly manufactured look is somewhat inaccurate, too. The landform or shape is common in adobe clay regions. I will grant that the adobe mounds aren't grassed but the adobe mound is not the only similarly shaped landform, here.

[Doug Wright]

Patrick,

Excellent question! Why wouldn't an architect today copy a clearly manufactured hole like Ross's 5th at Wilmington or 6th Roaring Gap (see GCA profiles of these holes)? These simple yet strategic holes could be very simple to build (just pile up a lotta dirt taken from an excavated lake or other parts of the course) and plenty challenging for all levels of golfers.  Donald Ross clearly was the master of this type of hole--I'm playing a very similar hole tomorrow, the 4th at Minikahda. Not a volcano hole, but one with a greensite that is surrounded by slopes that are quite severe on every side.

All The Best,

[wsmorrison]

17th at the US Naval Academy course in Annapolis, MD is a downhill 162 yard par 3 with a volcano green complex.  Originally a nine hole course by Harry Collis (1928), William Flynn added 9 holes in 1943.

[SPNC_Chris]

One newer course that I can think of that has such a hole is the sixth at the Gauntlet at St. James in Southport, NC. It's a 255-yard par 4 and it's very tempting to go for the green. If you manage to hit it and stick it, more power to you. If you miss short, you've got a bunker. If you miss long, right, or left, you'll be well below the surface of the green. I don't recall exactly how far it drops off, but I think it's at least 10 feet. The course was designed by P.B. Dye and at a 143 slope it's about the most difficult course in the area. Perhaps there are a couple in Myrtle beach with higher slopes, but not many.

[Scott_Burroughs]

SPNC,

I've played that hole before, it's straight uphill, too.  One time I drove over the green on the tee shot and it was a tough shot from there.  Don't remember it being too steep, say 10 feet, but there of course was trouble all around, as short par 4's should have.

[BCrosby]

Pat -

Volcano greens are terrifying. An wonderful design where short approaches are involved. Particularly if you can't see the putting surface from the fairway.

One of the best is no. 2 at Cruden Bay. Better than the Ross at Roaring Gap.

A good modern version is no. 3 at Laurel Springs (Nicklaus) just north of Atlanta.

(OT: Another bit of evidence that Nicklaus is funkier than most moderns. He will take chances others won't. He deserves more credit for it.)

Bob  

[Jeff Goldman]

Shivas, you beat me to it.  5 on the River course falls off only front and right, so I take it that it's not a volcano green.

Incidently, have you ever considered trying to drive the green on 13 meadow?  You have to almost drive over the big hill on the left, but it's a short hole and I wondered if you've been tempted.

Jeff Goldman

[Patrick_Mucci]

Fellows,

It seems to me that very few have been built over the last 50 years, and if they are not extinct, they are an endangered species on the brink of extinction.

After playing the 5th at Nassau I began to reflect on the challenge and fun they offer, and why they seem to occur so rarely in modern designs.

Perhaps the older designs had their foundations created as the debris fields or depositories for rock and excess dirt.

I would be curious to know if anyone has done test borings to determine the subsurface structure of these greens.

The 11th at Westhampton and the 10th at Baltusrol upper also come to mind.

[David Wigler]

Patrick,

Mike Devries built a terrific Volcano Green at Kingsley.  He is really good at them.  Bruce Matthews has one at Angels Crossing (Due to soft open in Sept).  I am curious to see how it is received and how it plays.

[Jeff_Brauer]

I did one at Opryland years ago on a short par 3.  Norman has one at Meadowbrook in Houston on a 200 yard plus par 3, which I found odd, yet oddly exciting...

If they aren't extinct, the ADA requirement for wheelchair access will make them so...

[Dan Kelly]

Jeff Brauer --

Did you consider making No. 7 at The Quarry a half-volcano?

[Jeff_Brauer]

In short, no.

[James Edwards]

Patrick,

I would have to say that PINEHURST #2 hole 15 is a fine example.  Typically an 'up turned saucer' in design, although moderately elevated, the slopes off all sides is sufficient enough to carry the ball vast distances away from the flag.

then holding the green with your pitch shot is not guaranteed!

[CJ72]

The 16th at the Island Golf club, Ireland is a volcano green. It is a medium length par three and It rises up four feet on all sides and is 100% artificial.  You can tell right away that it does not belong with the rest of the course.  There is talk of changing the green sight because of the unnatural feel of the hole.  Great golf course though.