[BHoover]

So my club this week voted on whether to adopt and implement a course renovation (the mast plan, which was developed by Keith Foster, called for tree removal, bunker rebuilds, irrigation improvement and reclamation of lost fairway lines). Unfortunately, the renovation was not approved. My sense is that the older members were responsible for the failed vote. Whether because they didn't want to pay for it or because they are reluctan to take out their favorite trees, they opposed the renovation. I think that the failure to renovate is going to lead to a slow death of the club. Younger prospective members aren't likely to choose to join because there are other options.

My question is, what should I do? Part of me wants to quit, partly out of frustration and in part to make a statement that if the old guys wan to bury their heads in the sand and refuse to acknowledge the need for the renovation, then they need to see that their action will lead to younger members like me to bail. Am I over-reacting?

[Greg Chambers]

What about a partial renovation?  Rather than going all-in, rebuild some bunkers...remove a few trees here and there...adjust some fairway lines.  Allow the membership to trust the advise of the architect, then maybe they will sign off on the entire package.

[Patrick_Mucci]

First,

What was the vote count ?

Narrow margin or landslide ?

How pro-active was leadership in promoting and securing votes BEFORE the meeting ?

What was the dollar amount for the package ?

Fall back on plan B, divide and conquer, compartmentalize the projects and try to get one at a time thru

[BHoover]

The results of the vote made it clear that the membership as a whole does not want to address the problems with the course. Instead, they want to focus on "improved service levels" (whatever the hell that means). A large number of the older members are adamantly opposed to tree removal. They think that trees make the course both beautiful and challenging. Some members even proposed rebuilding cart paths rather than addressing irrigation so that carts can run on even the soggiest days. In other words, the membership seems to want to bury their heads in the sand. It's very frustrating.

[mike_beene]

The grass often isn't greener( bad analogy) .Only leave if there is another place you want to go.You will show them and no one will care.Things change always.No way to know what a few years will bring.Besides,if you have a big initiation you will not get all back and pay another.In my time most who leave either come back or didn't like golf anyway.

[BHoover]

First,

What was the vote count ?

Narrow margin or landslide ?

How pro-active was leadership in promoting and securing votes BEFORE the meeting ?

What was the dollar amount for the package ?

Fall back on plan B, divide and conquer, compartmentalize the projects and try to get one at a time thru

I haven seen the final tally, but the board wanted 75%+ approval to move forward. I'm guessing they had a majority but not enough to move forward. The board and some members were very proactive in trying to drum up support and build excitement for the proposal. We even brought in Brad Klein to speak about the need to do something.

The dollar amount was approx. $10K for full members, payable upfront, over 3 years or monthly over 5-6 years.

[Jeff Shelman]

Brian,

I guess the question that has to be answered is whether there is another option where you live?

If so, it would probably be worth at least checking out the options. There certainly seems to be good deals out there in many parts of the country.

[Jason Topp]

Brian - listen to Pat.  Go one project at a time.  It is tough to be too critical of people that do not want to spend $10K.  Think about something you can sell.

[BHoover]

Brian,

I guess the question that has to be answered is whether there is another option where you live?

If so, it would probably be worth at least checking out the options. There certainly seems to be good deals out there in many parts of the country.

There are definitely other options here in central Ohio. I've been considering another club where several friends are members, but I was holding out hope that my current club would see the light and do what needs to be done. This might be the straw that broke the camel's back.

[Sam Morrow]

Brian,


I would only quit if you have a backup plan. As for the older members they will die soon.

[BHoover]

Brian - listen to Pat.  Go one project at a time.  It is tough to be too critical of people that do not want to spend $10K.  Think about something you can sell.

I certainly understand not undertaking a project for financial reasons. But I don't get the sense that money was the reason for not approving the plan. I think it had more to do with people digging in their heels and not wanting to make any changes.

For the record, I was not involved in proposing the project. I was merely a supporter.  

[Tom_Doak]

Brian:

I'm sorry that your hopes for a storybook renovation were dashed.  (And I'm sorry for Keith Foster, too, knowing how much work he puts into these things.)  However, it's disturbing that you don't consider that the proposed renovation may have been quashed for financial reasons and not just because your members don't understand cool golf architecture or the need [need?] for a new irrigation system.

If you really think that the proposed works will make a difference, you should work with your green chairman to carry them out in house, one piece at a time.  That's really what most clubs should be doing nowadays:  spending within their means.

[BHoover]

Brian,


I would only quit if you have a backup plan. As for the older members they will die soon.

They will be gone, but they have the money, an there may not be anyone left behind when they go.

[Jeff Shelman]

Brian,

I think you should at least look around at the club where you have some friends at. See what is out there.

It's hard not being happy at your club.

[BHoover]

Brian:

I'm sorry that your hopes for a storybook renovation were dashed.  (And I'm sorry for Keith Foster, too, knowing how much work he puts into these things.)  However, it's disturbing that you don't consider that the proposed renovation may have been quashed for financial reasons and not just because your members don't understand cool golf architecture or the need [need?] for a new irrigation system.

If you really think that the proposed works will make a difference, you should work with your green chairman to carry them out in house, one piece at a time.  That's really what most clubs should be doing nowadays:  spending within their means.

Tom, you make a good point. I certainly know the need to operate within one's means. I'm just venting frustration, I suppose.

[Sam Morrow]

Brian,

I think you should at least look around at the club where you have some friends at. See what is out there.

It's hard not being happy at your club.

Jeff is right on, it's hard not being happy at your own club. A club that you invest that kind of money into needs to be a place you feel at home, if you're not happy then it's time to move.

[BHoover]

Brian,

I think you should at least look around at the club where you have some friends at. See what is out there.

It's hard not being happy at your club.

Jeff is right on, it's hard not being happy at your own club. A club that you invest that kind of money into needs to be a place you feel at home, if you're not happy then it's time to move.

I think you're right. I have been holding on in the hope that this might work out. I've also been arguing with the greens chairman to make needed changes until I'm blue in the face. But majority rules (who said that democracy is the worst form of government except for all others?), and it seems clear that my view is not what my fellow members want. So be it.

[Mike McGuire]

Brian,

I think you should at least look around at the club where you have some friends at. See what is out there.

It's hard not being happy at your club.

Jeff is right on, it's hard not being happy at your own club. A club that you invest that kind of money into needs to be a place you feel at home, if you're not happy then it's time to move.

I think you're right. I have been holding on in the hope that this might work out. I've also been arguing with the greens chairman to make needed changes until I'm blue in the face. But majority rules (who said that democracy is the worst form of government except for all others?), and it seems clear that my view is not what my fellow members want. So be it.

Majority does not rule (unless you let it by doing a vote) and democracy is not the best form of government, a republic is.

 Usually clubs are run by a board of governors who make decisions, not by what the majority wants, but by what is best for the club.

 If you dont know the results , or even the criteria for the decision, its likely the board wanted it to fail.

Boards are heavily influenced by the seniors as they are usually clients of their own brokerage, lawyer, accounting practices etc..

Seems like you went all in and lost. Time to move on , the dinosaurs won. Move to a different club or even better take up fishing or sailing or ??

[Kevin_Reilly]

Brian, was the course going to be closed during the work?  If so, that is usually a big negative for a large portion of the membership (particularly older members).

[Patrick_Mucci]

I haven seen the final tally, but the board wanted 75%+ approval to move forward. I'm guessing they had a majority but not enough to move forward.

Brian,

Something's not right.
The club's by-laws, not what the Board wants in terms of approval percentages governs the outcome.
If your by-laws state that a majority is all you need, then the "ayes" have it and the motion passes.
If 66 2/3 is needed, and the vote fell below that, then the "neahs" carry the day and the project gets shelved.

What I'm surprised at is that the Board didn't have an alternate plan should the proposed project fail to receive the required votes.

Something seems amiss with the facts.

I'd suggest that you obtain the hard facts such that the question/s you posed can be placed in the proper context.   [/size]

The board and some members were very proactive in trying to drum up support and build excitement for the proposal. We even brought in Brad Klein to speak about the need to do something.

How active was the opposition ?

The dollar amount was approx. $10K for full members, payable upfront, over 3 years or monthly over 5-6 years.

A reasonable plan "b" would have been a project or projects costing one third 1/3 the amount.
Why didn't the Board propose an alternate once the main project was voted down ?

[Patrick_Mucci]

Tom Doak,

You're right, no matter how people couch their objections to a project, in 99 % of the cases it's about the money.

[Jim_Coleman]

    You might look into how Philly Cricket turned the tide.  It's my understanding the the membership first turned down an expensive Foster renovation.  The project was presented again a couple of years later and it passed.  I don't know how they pulled it off, but they did.  At least that's how I hear it went down.

[BHoover]

Patrick,
I have not dug deeply into the by-laws at this point (being a lawyer I get my fill of that at work), but you raise a good point. This thread was more of my initial reaction to the vote, which just took place this week. I understand that the board may try to bring the renovation (or some variation thereof) back up for a vote in the spring. But I'm not sure whether that would be successful or not and whether it would mean the master plan would get chopped up and messed with. Bottom-line, it seems that the old guys don't want it. They are entitled to their opinion, but so am I and I can vote with my feet.

[BHoover]

Brian, was the course going to be closed during the work?  If so, that is usually a big negative for a large portion of the membership (particularly older members).

The plan was to do the work over two years and to close down each nine during the off-season. I really think the negatives were financial and a reluctance to change (i.e., remove their beloved trees).

[Patrick_Mucci]

Brian,

The nay sayers always seem more vocal, and the older members may or may not be the source of defeat.
Their golfing future is often behind them and they may not see the benefit of spending money on a diminished return.

But, it's doubtful that the oldest members comprise 51 % of the membership.

One thing I've learned about club votes is that talk is really cheap when it comes to anything requiring a significant assessment.

While your board may have wanted a 75 % approval, if the by-laws indicated that a majority vote wins, they'd have been happy with 51 %.

I suspect that the vote "for" may have been less than 51 %, and if so, why wasn't there a plan"B" ?

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