[jeffwarne]

I'd take 14 photo tour threads over 14 stupid threads started by Dentist Gray (usually in the same hour) or another manifesto from the black sheep of Old Tom's brood.

Candidly, I don't think GCA has ever been as good as it's been over the past few months, and I started lurking here in 2002 and joined as a poster in early 2005.  

+1

[Matt Bosela]

I, for one, love the photo tours.

I've done my fair share of them in the past and part of my appreciation for these tours is due to the incredible amount of time and effort that goes into each one.  It's certainly a hell of a lot easier starting some OT political thread than it is to set up a photobucket account, upload your images, downsize them for this site, link a whole bunch of IMG tags and add paragraphs worth of pertinent commentary on the course and the individual holes.

In my opinion, we should be praising the writers of these tours and thanking them for their contributions rather than asking for a break.

[Greg Krueger]

Matt, well said. It does take alot of time and effort and in my opinion they are the best threads on the DG!

[Niall C]

I'm not a fan of the photo tours either. But not because of their proliferation.

I just wish so many of them weren't a string of dozens of pictures.  Instead I would love to see fewer pictures and more of the  thoughts of the poster.

There's a reason the most successful magazines aren't wall-to-wall pictures.

K

Exactly.  The vast majority of photo tours consist of dozens of photos with no discussion, no analysis and no insight.  At least when Pat Mucci posts about holes he discusses them, analyses and criticises.  A photo might help but his approach is so much better than pages of photos but no discussion.

Would it be helpful if Patrick could list his top 5 photo tours ?

Niall

[Bill Seitz]

I find them interesting to look through, but I have yet to see one that does justice to seeing the course in person.  I actually like reviewing the photo-tours AFTER I've played somewhere, especially when there is some commentary.  It brings back memories of playing those places, and it gets me to think about the holes I've played in a different way.  It's hard to process the comments when all you're seeing is a picture.  I thought the Kingsley, Ballyneal, and Crystal Downs tours were great, but photos just can't do justice to the scale of those places.  They're a great addition to the site, though. 

[Terry Lavin]

Keep it up, Saltz.  I want to be Mark Saltzman for Christmas.

[Michael George]

I do not understand this thread.  

In golf course architecture, words can only convey so much.  Photos and diagrams surely provide a more accurate depiction of many of the issues that we discuss on the site.  Further, as Bill cited, after you play a course, it is great to see photos to recall your round.

I really enjoy the photo tours and hope this thread does not stop people from posting them....

Keep them coming Mark - love em!

[Sven Nilsen]

Mark:

I think I agree with your overall point, which I read to be that you would like to see more substantive conversation on courses.  The Whip it Out and Top Ten (admittedly started by me) threads may have had an original point that has since gone by the wayside, and now only seem to serve as what one poster once described as a self-administered pat on the back.

I generally like the photo tours, but I do agree with your point that they are better when combined with analysis.  I have to ask though, does the onus fall on the tour guide to provide the analysis, or should that responsibility lie with all of us?  As an example, Kyle Henderson has been dutifully plugging through a tour of Whistling Straits, a course that should be worthy of a great deal of conversation and perhaps quite a few differing opinions.  Yet the participation in that thread has been muted.  

If anything, I would have to disagree with Pat Craig.  The clutter may be down, but the general quality of the discussion is not up to par with the early days.

Sven

[Michael George]

Keep it up, Saltz.  I want to be Mark Saltzman for Christmas.

Terry - After looking at his top 25, I will concur with that opinion.  Pebble Beach #25 --- has to be one impressive list to do that!!  While I give Mark props for individuality in his picks, his order is questionable.  Prairie Club above Sand Hills?

1   Shinnecock Hills
2   Ballyneal
3   Merion
4   Oakmont
5   Sunningdale (Old)
6   Lahinch
7   Prairie Dunes
8   North Berwick (west)
9   Rock Creek Cattle Company
10   Plainfield
11   Prairie Club (Dunes)
12   Sand Hills
13   Pinehurst No 2
14   The Golf Club
15   St Andrew’s (Old)
16   Highlands Links
17   Sebonack
18   Franklin Hills
19   Kingsley Club
20   Victoria National
21   The Patriot
22   Shooting Star
23   St George's
24   Pasatiempo
25   Pebble Beach

[Joe Bausch]

Keep it up, Saltz.  I want to be Mark Saltzman for Christmas.

I just want to be him for a day.  He probably played two more courses today.   

[Bruce Wellmon]

I happen to enjoy the photo threads. I think it's one of the best parts of GCA.

[Mark McKeever]

Sadly....I think Saltzy's top 25 needs to be updated..He's had an epic run the past couple weeks.


Mark

[Michael George]

Sadly....I think Saltzy's top 25 needs to be updated..He's had an epic run the past couple weeks.


Mark

Mark - when doesn't he have an epic run?

[Kyle Henderson]

I'll yield the floor to Saltzy after wrapping up the Whistling Straits tour.

May you browse in peace, Sir Bourgeois.

[John McCarthy]

I support the photo threads.  This very morning I clicked on the thread for The Creek, a course I have never heard of before this morning, and it took my breath away at the beauty. 

Life is hard and sometimes cruel.  Looking at beautiful golf courses is a pleasure we should not deprive ourselves. 

[Bill McKinley]

As a newer poster and someone who has posted a couple photo tours, I obviously love to see photo tour threads.  I think Kyle Henderson's photos are amazing, that guys is an artist!  And Mark Saltzman's quality and quantity of great photo threads and courses, combined with his insight are wonderful.

Keep em coming fellas! And maybe I'll get around to putting up a tour of Yeamans Hall soon.  That is if anybody would like to see it.  Hahah!

[PCCraig]

Mark:

I think I agree with your overall point, which I read to be that you would like to see more substantive conversation on courses.  The Whip it Out and Top Ten (admittedly started by me) threads may have had an original point that has since gone by the wayside, and now only seem to serve as what one poster once described as a self-administered pat on the back.

"Pat on the back" is far too kind.

I generally like the photo tours, but I do agree with your point that they are better when combined with analysis.  I have to ask though, does the onus fall on the tour guide to provide the analysis, or should that responsibility lie with all of us?  As an example, Kyle Henderson has been dutifully plugging through a tour of Whistling Straits, a course that should be worthy of a great deal of conversation and perhaps quite a few differing opinions.  Yet the participation in that thread has been muted.  

While I generally enjoy photo threads, you could make the case that the photos being presented are taking the place of the discussion. It's easy (and I'm very guilty of this) to just look at the pictures and write "thanks for the photos, the course looks great." When there isn't much of a purpose of the thread attached to the photos, it's easy to get a bunch of responses back like it.

Plus (and I mean no disrespect to Kyle) but a photo thread for a course like WS probably isn't going to generate a lot of discussion because it's been analyzed and discussed to death over the last ten years, either on TV, magazines, or photo threads. I'd much rather read a photo tour on cool under-the-radar courses like The Creek, Blue Mound, or Midland Hills (Jeff Shelman's home course).

If anything, I would have to disagree with Pat Craig.  The clutter may be down, but the general quality of the discussion is not up to par with the early days.

I don't know, it's been pretty great recently. I can only take so many Merion & "pat on the back" threads.

Sven

[Kyle Henderson]

Sir Craig,

When I post threads on the less well-known gems (e.g. Portsea), my impression is that little discussion ensues because few can comment on the course from personal experience.

It times time to follow a thread and make pertinet posts that add to the narrative. With so many pictorials on the front page, the pool of interest is bound to be diltuted (if not averted  a la Sir Bourgeois -- I think he's onto something).

[Jordan Caron]

Not sure if this has been mentioned but wouldn't the solution be to create a photo tour sub forum?

[RJ_Daley]

"you don't have to click on them" argument doesn't work when there are *14* threads on page 1.

Mark, I haven't read the thread and various replies, and maybe this is redundant.  But, I'd say to extend the 'you don't have to click on them' with 14 on one page to:  You don't have to stay on page one...  

I love the tours.  There is ample room to look at the pics, the angles presented by the photographer and try to discuss what they show by way of architecture.  I'm sure someone as already noted, this is one way to see and hear evaluation by people that describe the photo, and tell us their personal view having perhaps actually played there.  Which is enjoyable for many of us that will likely never see many of those depicted.  

[John Foley]

LOVE the photo threads - we need more of them - I love the construction ones we've seen in the past where the work is actually being done.

How about a top 10 list of courses we need photo thread of?

BTW - I think we ALL wish we we're Mark ltatzman right now - he is one one epic run - the likes we have never seen before!

[Bradley Anderson]

My wife thinks it's pretty funny how excited I get when I come back from a golf trip and log on to GCA to share pictures and comments.

But it is one of the things I enjoy doing most. I don't think that my commentary is that good compared to the level of stuff that others write.  But without GCA there wouldn't be anyone else to share this with. No one else cares about golf course architecture like we do on here.

[Robert Mercer Deruntz]

I am a photo tour poster and huge fan of viewing these tours.  It was a few photos of Dooks that once altered my trip and kept me from wasting an extra day on Old Head.  How many obscure courses have been revealed through these photo tours.  Arguing from a different perspective, I currently have an architecturally specific thread running that is receiving very little discussion post was begun a few weeks ago ecause there is a major connection that this post was aiming for--hopefully, at some point someone will begin discussing the real point of my post.

[David Davis]

As a newbie, I love the photo tours you guys are posting. Please keep them going, with or without comments. More discussion on them where appropriate is great. I don't mind learning any time I can. Plus it's really nice when you post a photo tour if it gets discussion, it's time consuming at best to post them so I imagine great for everyone when appreciated. The other thing is it's pretty clear when something is a photo tour so for the very few people that don't want to see them, they are easy to avoid.

The other thing about them is that if you can set the fear of making mistakes in your commenting aside it will help you learn to evaluate better and appreciate aspects of courses you might not of ever seen before. Of course I'm speaking for myself.

Thanks for taking the time and effort to post those tours gentlemen!

[Dan Byrnes]

More cell phone threads less photo tours

Dan

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