What are the neatest contoured Par 3 greens

[Patrick_Mucci]

I've always been partial to # 6 at NGLA, but yesterday I played a terrific par 3, the 5th at Nassau.

This hole has an elevated green surrounded by front and side bunkers with a squared back which falls off precipitously.

The green is like a toilet seat with the depression in the middle

The rim of the seat creates exciting and challenging pin positions, with shots missing the green paying a heavy price, and shots that come to rest on another level facing almost certain 3 putts.

It is a unique and fun green to play, one of the best I have ever seen.

What other par 3's have such interesting contours ?

[david h. carroll]

Isn't a toilet seat with depression in the middle an old Raynor thumbprint green?

[Tim_Weiman]

Pat Mucci:

Well, if you happen to like par 3s where you can hit the middle of the green and sometimes feel good about making just three putts, then I'll nominate the famous 13th hole at Dooks.

Some may consider it over the top, but I say you just have to play it with the right frame of mind.

[larry_munger]

pat, from what I have heard, #'s 2 and 10 at Prairie Dunes, didn't you play in the mid am there?

[Larry_Keltto]

I don't think I'll ever forget the brilliant undulations at Royal Porthcawl's #7 (124 yards from the tips). Also, the green is surrounded by six bunkers.

[B. Mogg]

I would have to agree with Dooks 13th. Is there another green in the entire world as contoured as that baby. Miss it or hit it - 2 putts is a miricle...you could spend days hitting balls there and never have the same shot twice. Build it today and you would be shot.

[Mark_F]

Patrick Mucci:

I'd like to answer your question with a question.

What makes good green contours?

In the course profiles on this site, such obvious features as bowls or backstops that can be used to feed/stop the ball into the correct spot are obvious, but on other course reviews, the words "nice rolls" are used.  

Having said that, would you agree that the 11th at The Old Course is a great green/par three hole?  

I think it's an overrated one-pin hole.  Informed anlaysis, by anyone, on why I am (possibly) wrong would be appreciated.

[TEPaul]

Pat:

I've been thinking about this question for a couple of days now and other than NGLA's #6 I'm coming up empty. I hit a wedge there the other day, missed the bowl (where the pin was) by about a foot left of the rim--the ball filtered off the green to the left fringe--my first putt failed to make the rim of the bowl--came back to my feet--I got the next one into the bowl and two putted. All this before my opponent putted which I gave him for birdie as he was about ten feet from the pin in the bowl. This is what a super fantastic match play par 3 is all about and I completely agree with you (something I seem to be doing more of these days than I care to) that NGLA's #6 has the neatest green contours of any green I'm aware of.

[Hunt]

DCarroll is correct. Pat is describing the thumbprint. SLCC has the Short hole #7. Some truly brutal pins can be established on these holes.

Going back right on this 150-160 yard shot on the #18 HCP hole makes for lots of big numbers in member events.

[JLahrman]

Raynor definitely put in a similar thumbprint green on #11 at Camargo.  I've always referred to it as a horseshoe rather than a toilet seat, but same difference.

Check Ross's greens at French Lick Springs, they are a ton of fun.  Two of them seem a bit much for holes playing in the neighborhood of 220 yards from the back, but I didn't find any impossible putts on them although they were difficult.  I almost had a hole in one on the short par 3 16th.  I pulled a wedge 50 feet left, but had it swoop down and finish about an inch away (pin was a little to the right of where it is in Ran's picture, my ball landed in the left fringe).

[A_Clay_Man]

Spy #5 has some interesting sections most of which are extremely deceptive. and that back right hidden bunker use to be the biggest bitch on the course.

Here at PH, the 3's are all strong. My favorite is the former 3rd now 12th hole, it sits naturally underneath two hills in the background and it's green is sectioned with decent undulation. Huge Bunker front left and grass swales long and right. The rear has two knolls which mimic the hills above and are my favorite feature to use when flopping from the right swale or long left. I look forward to finding out in Sept. if these rear knolls could be considered a reverse knoll hole?

While others think Ken Dye's #4 at Paa Ko is over the top, once the story is told, the 13 ft of elev. change is unique and a bold architectural statement.

[James Edwards]

The 13th at Sawgrass, which has one of the best golf enigmas of all time.  Why is it, if you place the pin on the lower left plateau, you always seem to hit the perfect block which comes top rest between every conceivable slope which would gather the ball towards the pin?

.....and why is it that when the pin is up high, the most perfect high draw to the lower left pin position results or the ball runs off the contours down to the lower left and never stays?  or indeed catches the slope at the back of the green which sends the ball some 15yards away from the pin?

I would say, this is my neatest contoured Par 3 green.

Is it me or is the pin location pyschologically winning this battle?

[Patrick_Mucci]

Larry Munger,

I don't consider those two greens at Prairie Dunes in the same category as # 6 at NGLA or # 5 at Nassau.  I guess you'd have to be familiar with them to understand the concept of a really neatly contoured par 3 green.

Mark F,

You know it when you see it.

Shivas,

We're talking about par 3 greens only.

Forsgate may have one and Montclair's 7th on the 4th nine is another, both Banks designs

[Scott_Burroughs]

#3 at Yeamans Hall is also a horseshoe green.




I'd certainly nominate a Biarritz (#9 at Yale only one I've played) as interesting contours on a par 3.  Yale's even tilts right to left.





False fronts that spill into greenside bunkers make things interesting, too, like at #13 at Chechessee Creek:



or #3 at Pine Needles (Flash doesn't work on here directly anymore, so click on link, then wave mouse over #3 in lower right, by pond)

http://www.pineneedles-midpines.com/images/pn-c-layout.swf

#8 at Tobacco Road has one serious tier to contend with, and a putt from front left to back right is hella fun (2 out of 3 times playing the hole), going up a lot, then down, flirting with the fringe.



Perhaps the scariest short par 3 green I've ever encountered is #11 at Plainfield.  Sheer terror if you don't hit the middle and if you do, putts will break a ton.

[Mike Hendren]

A few favorites:

The Duel Hole at SFGC.

The 16th at Talking Stick North - a hole that looks like a breather designed for the novice with its big green, moderate distance and wide open fairway and surrounds.  Easily 3-puttable from all over.

The 13th at French Lick Springs - 3 tiers with a back bowl  (see GCA profile).

The 8th at Pasatiempo.

The deceptive 8th at Lower Cascades.  

The 6th at Augusta National by sole virtue of the back right tier - has to be seen to be believed.  (16 ain't bad either).

Regards,

Mike

[corey miller]

Pat-perhaps you can write an "in my opinion" piece on what a really neatly contoured par 3 green looks like.  You asked the question and Larry M. provided you with two solid answers and you give him a snide answer which I do not understand.  I have played PD 2,10 and certainly they  are "neatly contoured" in my book.  Since, you have seen the greens why don't you answer why you do not think they are "neatly contoured".  

[Tommy_Naccarato]

Pat, I will completely side with you regarding the 6th at National.

-Friars Head #8 is pretty interesting too wouldn't you say?

-I love to see people try to figure out how to defy gravity on Rustic Canyon #4.

-Mark Fine comments on one pin position for The Eden, and I couldn't disagree more. I have seen that pin in all sorts of different spots, and each one of them is harrowing. I also find it interesting that CBM felt that the Eden at the National was similar to the real Eden. The breaks are similar, but I don't think the deth of the green and the contours are anywhere close to the original. But one thing is for sure. CBM was right in the fact the The Eden is a hole that can reward a topped shot, but with the carry over the water at the National, it takes away that saving factor. I love the Eden at the National, (Especially since I almost birdied it!) but of all the holes that are inspired from Great Britain originals, I think it is the only one on the course were the original is better.

I would be anxious to hear your take on that.

-Yale #9 was even better in person then it was in pictures.

-Riviera #6 was certainly impressive at one time. I think the newer version detracts away from the much better original.

-Sitwell Park! If they could ever restore it!

-Garden City #12! If they could restore that too!

[Matt_Ward]

Pat:

Collectively, I would have to say that two local courses in my back yard (yours too) would also be worth considering:

The four holes at Forsgate / Banks Course
*Incidentally, the horseshoe shaped 12th blows away the 3rd at Yeamans Hall
The 3rd has that delicious spine in the middle of the green
The 7th is a nicely done reverse redan
The 12th (see above)
The 17th is a good biaritz although a clear step behind the 9th at Yale

Essex County
The 6th is good mid-length hole with sufficient contour
The 9th is a superb short pitch hole to a green that sits high above the tee
The 11th is a gorgeous mid-length par-3 with a beautiful setting
The 15th is also quite good although the contours are less so.

One other course has been mentioned by Scott -- Plainfield CC.
The collection of four par-3's there is also quite good with a range of slopes and lengths to enounter. The short par-3 11th is just an absolute terror -- even with a wedge or 9-iron in hand!

[Scott_Burroughs]

I forgot, I have played another Biarritz, #16 at Yeamans Hall, it's just that it's not a full green version, though the spine that runs through the middle of the green vertically made it interesting.

[Joel_Stewart]

This thread could be endless.

11th at Crystal Downs was the only green I have ever 5 putted.

Tommy mentioned the 4th at Rustic Canyon but the 15th could also be included.

17th at Friars Head

8th at Maidstone

11th at Shinnecock

[billb]

The 11th at Lahinch : in 2000 anyways, I understand things have changed. I heard that this green is no longer there? I sure hope not, it was so fun to watch shots head to the back of the green, toward some big tall ugly grass, then run up the slope, stop, and come back toward the hole.

[Joel_Stewart]

I take it then, Joel, that you've never 8 putted!  

Not that I can remember or at least sober...

Tommy N. told me last week he had 8 or 10 putted a green, I believe at Rustic Canyon.

[Doug Wright]

Tim W's got it right--the 13th at Dooks takes the cake in my book!

Other than that, the original Redan and any quality facsimiles thereof.

[tonyt]

The McKenzie/Russell designed or influenced par 3s in Melbourne can add to this. In many ways, they are more subtle than some of the more undulating contours mentioned, but great, perplexing and deceptive all the same. I would nominate as favourites;

Yarra Yarra #11
Royal Melbourne #3 (composite)
Royal Melbourne #11 (composite)

And on ANGC #16, the many years of absorbing interest, triumph and unthinkable heartbreak on that green alone should surely qualify it strongly. Well mentioned Mike.

[Chris Kane]

Commonwealth #'s 9 and 15
13th Beach #7
National Moonah #13 (pity its too hard for a blind hole)