GCA's definition of QuIrK (y) in architecture

[David Davis]

I'm following up Patrick Mucci's post here, hope you don't mind sir, as I was really curious about how everyone is defining quirk (y) in terms of design and architecture. I imagine there being all kinds of it from natural to artificial (man made) and from intentional to unintentional although the latter would hopefully not occur so much any more.

I had posted an example of my impression in the previous post on the 18th at Kington which I will repost to start this. Here it is:

Perhaps most of you guys have a different meaning to quirk than I do. Cruden Bay to me has quirky holes, #2 and it's oddly shapes and placed plateau green, #10 and it's huge and unexpected elevation change, #14 and it's bathtub like green, #15 blind dog-leg par 3 or perhaps even #17 and having to chose which side of the large mound to play to on your drive?

How much is "good" and "acceptable" before we write it off to being ridiculous? Love to see examples and see if we can come to some kind of consensus.

[Mac Plumart]

We had a good thread awhile back about quirk.  I can't recall the precise title, but the gist of it was that someone's definition of quirk was dependent on what they were used to.

For example, a parkland golfer would find links golf quirky.

Someone from th US would find stonewalls on golf courses quirky, but a Scot (or more specifically a member of North Bewick) might find that normal.

[Sean_A]

I think of quirk as outside the box architecture which isn't seen very often.  I don't buy that only natural or long standing man made stuff is acceptable quirk, but I do think purpose built quirk is harder for most golfers to swallow.  This is where archies can get clever and hide their quirk using historical examples (Alps etc) as templates or creating the feature which is quirky, but not necessarily quirky looking.  In other words, its plausible for that feature to have existed naturally and in fact the golfer may think the archie took advantage of a natural feature. 

I don't think most of the examples David gave are terribly quirky except for 14 & 15 at Cruden Bay.  Neither strike me as particularly good architecture.  14 yields results off the tee and approach which are too similar and 15 strikes me as downright bad architecture.  For anyone who bemoans a forced carry over water I can't see how they wouldn't think this much worse.  The hole would be much improved if a fairway were created whereby one could actually play it as a dogleg.     

[Patrick_Mucci]

David,

I tend to view "quirk" as unique or eccentric features, irrespective of whether they're natural or unnatural.

St George's in Long Island has a good deal of it.

[Ed Brzezowski]

What could be more quirky than North Berwick??

Six iron opening drive, three holes with walls and gates. Toss in the little pitch over a wall next to a green with dunes on the other side.
Then the best Redan ever and top it off with a Biarittz green and a driveable  finishing hole.

Might be the best quirky course on the planet.

[Tom_Doak]

I described The National Golf Links of America as quirky in my write-up in The Confidential Guide, and it was several years before they forgave me for it -- because it took them that long to understand that quirky is a term of endearment for me.  You can only be quirky if you have a personality of your own, something to which all golf courses should aspire but few achieve.

I have a pretty broad definition of the term.  I don't think it always has to be natural, or man-made for reasons other than golf.  It doesn't even have to be about a feature on the ground, it can be something as simple as the way the routing is put together.  It just has to be very unusual and call for something other than a straightforward golf shot.

There is a lot of quirk at Cruden Bay, but I wouldn't call all the things David listed "quirky" myself.  And he left out at least one feature that I WOULD call quirky ... the awkward little approach into the 3rd green.  Perhaps he just drives the green all the time.

[Adam Clayman]

David, In regard to the closer at Kington, those mounds that I assume are being the focus of the quirky tag are functional on many levels. From a playability feature to drainage.

Not sure if anyone has mentioned the drainage affect, yet. But, from my novice and rather far away position, it would appear those mounds help slow down and direct any significant rainfall. If that's true, the feature becomes much less quirky and much more intelligent. 

[Howard Riefs]

We had a good thread awhile back about quirk.  I can't recall the precise title, but the gist of it was that someone's definition of quirk was dependent on what they were used to.

http://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,48100.0.html

[David Davis]

Thanks guys, I see the conclusion is there is no real conclusion, one man's quirk is another man's mundane and boring. Fair enough, the same goes for slog apparently as these terms don't seem to show up enough to be easily and readily definable.

Tom, I was hoping people would give examples of what they find quirky as you did. I'd like to ask what else but I understand you might be further persecuted for the coming years and we can't have that now can we? Incidentally, I appreciate the vote of confidence and while I'd like to think I could easily drive the green of a 273 yd par 4...with my 3 wood (Driver would put me in water hazard or perhaps in someone poor chaps front window there  ), I could not for the life of me remember #3 at Cruden Bay. I looked it up on the website which has a decent photo of the approach to the green. I can see that as being a bit quirky but I can't really remember it. I've only played the course once and it was in something like 2008. I think I must of hit 5 iron off the tee and some short iron in to play it safe not knowing the course or the hole.

BTW...I don't consider myself long at all and don't want to build that reputation or expectation, I've have heard sneaky long but that's because I don't look like I'm swinging hard and thanks to my cheater clubs the ball sometimes catches updrafts, hits off sprinkler heads/rocks/cart paths/trees and the like to surprise the guys in the group by being 50 yds in front of them. When you can accidentally do that frequently you don't have to be long or swing hard.

Howard, thanks for finding that! Interesting but equally as generic in it's conclusion. It's in the eye of the beholder and seems to be almost always debatable like a lot of things.

Ed, I agree North Berwick has some pretty quirky holes in my opinion as well. It's been a long time since I played there so I vaguely remember them, what I do remember was brilliant.