[Peter Ferlicca]

I concur with John Kirk.  There might not be a better spot than the 18th green in the afternoon shadows overlooking the whole valley.  Here are a couple of pics to show you.  

[Matt Kardash]

I agree, the 18th at Stonewall is a wonderful closing hole.

[Sean_A]

Its tough for the old courses running to the clubhouse to be prettier than some of the new courses with clubs nowhere in sight of the 18th, but no way would I trade that sort of beauty (or indeed trading beauty for a walking course) for not having a house near the 18th green.    

The problem with the Old Stonewall hole is the hole is in the way of the beautiful set piece farm house.  In other words, the hole doesn't enhance the scene.  If anything, it detracts.

I still think the prettiest finishing hole I have played is TOC.  Sunny Old is very fine as well.  Saunton East is quite nice.  The greatest though is Kington's - hands down.  Even so, I would paint the entire green facing section white.  I would also look for another way to keep sheep from house as a shelter - the lattice work doesn't look good - at the very least it should be painted white.

Ciao

[John Kirk]

Those of you who think Kington is better looking than Stone Eagle must be big fans of mundane clubhouse architecture and telephone poles.  I'm sorry, you're absolutely nuts.  Here in America we appreciate natural geologic features more than black, red, white and orange buildings.  I don't care if it's this is a subjective discussion; that is a ridiculous claim.

[Sean_A]

Those of you who think Kington is better looking than Stone Eagle must be big fans of mundane clubhouse architecture and telephone poles.  I'm sorry, you're absolutely nuts.  Here in America we appreciate natural geologic features more than black, red, white and orange buildings.  I don't care if it's this is a subjective discussion; that is a ridiculous claim.

Fairly random shoot up.  Who made the "ridiculous claim"?

Ciao

[Mark Pearce]

John,

Some of us are looking at the hole, more than the background.  You want a great looking building in the background?  There are dozens of great looking clubhouses behind good looking greens in the UK.  And let's be honest, Kington has a great green, Stone Eagle has a sea of bunkers, so far as I can tell from the photo.  I was amused by the lack of irony with which one poster stated his preference for the natural look of Stone Eagle compared to the artificiality of Kingon.  Are bunkers like those natural in American farm land?

[John Kirk]

You're right Sean.  Nobody made the claim.  However, all here praising Kington after more worthy candidates are presented should freely admit its inferiority.

Hi Mark.  How do you separate the surrounding views from the actual green itself?  Perhaps I need to focus more on the actual green.  I would still select another green, as Kington's 18th, though it looks very fun to play, has unnatural looking mounding to counteract the steep prevailing slope.

And those bunkers on Stone Eagle are very unnatural.  The whole course is very unnatural, and not anywhere near farmland.  The green itself is very severe, perhaps 5-6 feet elevation change from top to bottom.  It yields shots of considerable interest.

[Sean_A]

John,

Some of us are looking at the hole, more than the background.  You want a great looking building in the background?  There are dozens of great looking clubhouses behind good looking greens in the UK.  And let's be honest, Kington has a great green, Stone Eagle has a sea of bunkers, so far as I can tell from the photo.  I was amused by the lack of irony with which one poster stated his preference for the natural look of Stone Eagle compared to the artificiality of Kingon.  Are bunkers like those natural in American farm land?

Mark

Are you confusing Stone Eagle with Stonewall?

John

Kington's 18th is a superb setting and to my eye anyway, the green is far prettier and more interesting looking than Stonewall's.  I can readily agree the house isn't remotely pretty, however, that is partly a function of club aspirations.  Kington is a simple club with earnest members.  To my thinking, it is a model club with at least a type of model course.  This sense of keep it simple stupid attitude adds to the splendour of Kington.  All that said, to each is own my friend.  Live and let live.

Ciao

[Jackson C]

Pasa #18 catches and holds my attention.

Half Moon Bay Palmer course #18 hole is a pretty hole as well.

[David Davis]

John,

Some of us are looking at the hole, more than the background.  You want a great looking building in the background?  There are dozens of great looking clubhouses behind good looking greens in the UK.  And let's be honest, Kington has a great green, Stone Eagle has a sea of bunkers, so far as I can tell from the photo.  I was amused by the lack of irony with which one poster stated his preference for the natural look of Stone Eagle compared to the artificiality of Kingon.  Are bunkers like those natural in American farm land?

Mark,

I assume you are referring to my post, but if so you are mistaken in my meaning. I certainly did not say Stone Eagle looked natural, I said it was beautiful but set up as a typical American target golf course.

Kington on the other hand looks fun and the green is more interesting but for a links course I find the green complex very unnatural looking so could not vote for it as being one of the best 18th greens.

Nothing more and nothing less. I thought it was a quite clear statement. Clearly it was not. I certainly would not include Stone Eagle's either. Unfortunately I cannot seem to remember 18th holes well enough to make suggestions as one that should be in the top. I do know some that I liked however, St. Andrew's Old, Pacific Dunes 18th, which has amazing bunkering, Pebble's 18th for the great setting, 18th at Kennemer with it's unique clubhouse behind it on top of the dune to name a few.

[John Kirk]

How about we define good looking.  Is good looking determined by aesthetics, by functionality, or a combination?

The 18th at Kington looks a bit like the Punchbowl 18th at Old Macdonald.  This hillside is so steep at Kington; how long is that hole?

[Patrick_Mucci]

Peter,

That's certainly a gorgeous setting, truly magnificent, but I thought the thread was about the 18th green and not the setting or surrounds.

Like the 6th at The Creek, the 18th at Kington appears to be quite a stunning and challenging green.

18 at Sebonack is pretty impressive as is NGLA, Seminole, Boca Rio, Old Marsh, Pebble Beach, WFW,  Baltusrol, and BPB

[Mike_Young]

Merion.

[Jason Thurman]

If we're just looking at the green, Kington looks pretty frickin' cool. Stone Eagle and Clear Creek Tahoe have pretty great settings, though the greens themselves are a bit harder to judge from photos.

[Mac Plumart]

NGLA

[Tom_Doak]

I'll second that Neil and also Moray Old must be also quite high up there.

Bill,

I am sure Stonewall Old is great but what makes it so in your opinion? From the photo it looks to have a couple of bunkers to many and if that is the angle of approach what shot options do you have except the arial route?

Jon

I love the hole at Stonewall.  It used to be my own best finishing hole hands down, though I wouldn't have nominated it as the best in the world.  Gil Hanse did those bunkers, and I didn't think he built too many of them.

I can tell you that you can hit a big cut around the bunkers and onto the green, as there is a bit more left-to-right slope than it looks from the clubhouse down to the green.  It's a great last shot to the round.  It's actually kind of similar to the approach into the 18th at Streamsong Blue, which I just played this evening.

[Kyle Henderson]

If we're just looking at the green, Kington looks pretty frickin' cool. Stone Eagle and Clear Creek Tahoe have pretty great settings, though the greens themselves are a bit harder to judge from photos.

Sadly, I can't offer any decent pictures of the surface itself at Clear Creek's closer. But, I assure you, that green is epic in all the right ways. A reachable par 5, the green allows for running approaches. It is a touch over 40 yards deep, with a small pot bunker protecting the front just right of center, and it gradually narrows moving to stern. Putting to a front left pin is complicated by a subtle mogul. Double breakers are common for long putts, but they are easily distinguished and not outlandish in scale.

Hopefully the place will repopen so all can enjoy.

[Mike_Clayton]

The best looking 18th green in golf - may be the 14th green at Woking.

[Mark Pearce]

Sean,

Yes, you're right.

David,

There's no doubt that the mounds protecting the 18th at Kington are and look artificial.  Indeed, most of the green defences are similar artificial mounds and hollows.  They are from a different era of architecture and will, I'm sure, stir different responses in different people.  For me, however, the way Kington plays makes me see these as wonderful hazards.  The 18th is a driveable par 4 and is one of the most enjoyable golf holes I have ever played.  In any sensible meaning of the word great it is a great golf hole.  The great thing is that everything that makes it so can be seen from the tee.  That's why it looks so great to me.

Also, as Adam will say in an earlier post later in this thread (isn't the edit function marvelous), Kington isn't a links.  It's on the top of a hill in rural Herefordshire, very far from the nearest sea.

[Adam Lawrence]

The best looking 18th green in golf - may be the 14th green at Woking.

It's really hard to believe that _wasn't_ the original home hole, but the club history makes it pretty clear that part of the routing hasn't changed - there is a 1896 card quoted in it. Sadly the clubhouse roof is now OB, so no-one could repeat the Hugh Alison shot, though the terrace is still in play.

Playing at Woking this afternoon

[Adam Lawrence]

John,

Some of us are looking at the hole, more than the background.  You want a great looking building in the background?  There are dozens of great looking clubhouses behind good looking greens in the UK.  And let's be honest, Kington has a great green, Stone Eagle has a sea of bunkers, so far as I can tell from the photo.  I was amused by the lack of irony with which one poster stated his preference for the natural look of Stone Eagle compared to the artificiality of Kingon.  Are bunkers like those natural in American farm land?

Mark,

I assume you are referring to my post, but if so you are mistaken in my meaning. I certainly did not say Stone Eagle looked natural, I said it was beautiful but set up as a typical American target golf course.

Kington on the other hand looks fun and the green is more interesting but for a links course I find the green complex very unnatural looking so could not vote for it as being one of the best 18th greens.

David, if Pennard is the links in the sky, then Kington must be in the stratosphere (it is, I think, the highest golf course in England, in no way a links!)

[Mike_Trenham]

St George's New York
Country Club of Scanton
Lahinch

[Mark Chaplin]

Muirfield, North Berwick, Royal Lytham and Knole Park take some beating.

[David Davis]

David, if Pennard is the links in the sky, then Kington must be in the stratosphere (it is, I think, the highest golf course in England, in no way a links!)
[/quote]


Ha ha ha, Adam, thanks for calling that one, I had honestly no idea, just in the photo the ground looks like hard fast sandy based links ground, that and the lack of any trees so just incorrectly assumed. I know that's not the correct generalization but anytime I think of "great" golf in the UK or Ireland, links golf comes to mind, or of course heathland but that's secondary for me for some reason. This didn't look like a heathland and therefore I just assumed it was some links course I'd not yet heard of.

Poor excuse but the only one I have to offer. Now that you mention it I can see in the background of the photo that the course appears to be way up in the hills. I was so focussed on the green and surround I hadn't even noticed that.

Next you are going to tell me that the UK is full of excellent golf courses that are neither links nor heathland and really destroy my entire impression of golf across the stream...

[Sean_A]

David


That is an interesting observation of the only excellent (great?) courses in the UK being links or heathland (lets include moorland for argument sake).  The only exception I know of in GB&I is Little Aston.  Though I think Kington is about as close as it gets to an additional exception.  Still, I think it is very work while for the visitor to seek it out.

Ciao

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