[David Davis]

David,

Have you ever had a regular foresome where you compete against each other week after week?  The rules of golf alone are built to destroy relationships.  Do you have any idea how difficult it is to pay off a friend on a bet when you knew before the match ever began that he doesn't know or care how to properly take a drop at a lateral hazard?  You can laugh it off once or twice but after ten years or so a guy is eventually gonna blow up.

Now if you just play rake and run and support each other in the lie about your skill level have at it.  That isn't a golf buddy, it's a mistress.

John,

No I have not had this and honestly it sounds like a form of masochism. Don't get me wrong I'm all for various forms of masochism, I go out on a course as much as I can that kicks my butt all the time so clearly I'm game for that. However, I don't golf on a regular day like that and I don't and would not play week in and week out with someone that got on my nerves. Plus I would also call something like that if we were betting on money. I don't claim to be a rules expert but one of my friends and members of my club who recently joined GCA is a European Tour Referee. I welcome having someone like that along, plus I don't play with anyone at the level I would be betting that has an excuse not to at least have an idea of the rules (all of my regular playing partners are low single hcp'ers and guys from my competition team). I find the rules complicated at best but still want to play by them even if they seem unfair. In Portland a couple weeks ago I teamed up with Pete Pittock who is also a rules official, that was great as in one situation I honestly had no idea of where to drop. As my ball went into this creek that had yellow stakes. I can't remember ever hitting into that type of hazard before, red yes, but not yellow. I was happy he knew all the rules.

So the case that you are explaining is just not something I'd get myself into. That being said I have a very good friend, who doesn't even have a registered hcp, has no clue of the rules but in terms of pure playing is a serious golfer with about a 4 hcp yet he deems it ok from time to time to give his ball a nudge to improve the lie, when he misses the fairway which is rarely. This is similar to your point. I would never bet him anything and I don't play with him as much either due to this. He's still a friend and would be and has been the first to help me if and when I needed it.

[John Kirk]

I don't think I hate any more golfers than I do non-golfers. Still, I have to admit that there's a weird vibe that a lot of them give off, and it's the same vibe that I get from people who played point guard on a team their father coached growing up. It sort of feels like I'm with someone who's trying to act the part of a "frat boy" in an extremely serious network drama but with a healthy and unspoken dose of need for acceptance just under the surface. This is why I play most of my golf with football players who grew up in the inner city. Well, that and the fact that if I hit into someone the victim usually feels compelled to apologize to me for not playing more quickly when he sees how large our group is.

I also quietly judge anyone who doesn't take their hat off inside, and smirk a bit to myself every time I do it. The size of the smirk is inversely proportional to the quality and cost of the course.

Funny, strange post.

1.  My clubs click in my bag.  A lot.
2.  I'm very curious, ask lots of questions, and I talk way too much, unless we're playing for something that, in my opinion, is worth being quiet and concentrating on.

[Ted Sturges]

What is really difficult is developing friendships with golfers that last over a weekly game for any long period of time.  That takes sacrifice, patience and understanding.

David,

Have you ever had a regular foresome where you compete against each other week after week?  The rules of golf alone are built to destroy relationships.  Do you have any idea how difficult it is to pay off a friend on a bet when you knew before the match ever began that he doesn't know or care how to properly take a drop at a lateral hazard?  You can laugh it off once or twice but after ten years or so a guy is eventually gonna blow up.

Now if you just play rake and run and support each other in the lie about your skill level have at it.  That isn't a golf buddy, it's a mistress.

John,

Medal play is an "ugly American" habit.  The game was invented with the notion of playing a match. Stop playing medal golf.  Play a match against someone, or play in a four-ball match.  You'll hate less, have more fun...and play faster.

TS

[Paul OConnor]

John,
1. I will not be helping you find your lost ball.
2. I will not be admiring your shots nor congratulating you for your fine play.
3. I will not be stopping at the turn.
4. I will be walking far in front of you while you take forever to play.
5. I will not be giving you any putts, of any length, ever.
6. I will give you accurate rulings, even when you don't like them.
7. I will insist that you post your real score.
8. I will not engage in convoluted betting games.
9. I will probably be leaving the club immediately after the round.   
10. I will likely be available tomorrow for more of the same.

[John Kavanaugh]

Ted,

You have played Victoria National enough to know that losing a ball does not guarantee a loss of hole even in match play.  Have you ever seen two good friends in a rules dispute?  For no other reason than the rules being too complicated it can end friendships.  When you tell a guy that his ball did not cross a hazard 200 yds up the fairway you are not calling him a cheater.  You're calling him something, I'm not ever sure what, but not quite a cheater.  Not quite.

[John Kavanaugh]

John,
1. I will not be helping you find your lost ball.
2. I will not be admiring your shots nor congratulating you for your fine play.
3. I will not be stopping at the turn.
4. I will be walking far in front of you while you take forever to play.
5. I will not be giving you any putts, of any length, ever.
6. I will give you accurate rulings, even when you don't like them.
7. I will insist that you post your real score.
8. I will not engage in convoluted betting games.
9. I will probably be leaving the club immediately after the round.   
10. I will likely be available tomorrow for more of the same.

Those are pretty much the rules me and my friends play by with the exception of getting beers at the turn and after the round while we settle our convoluted betting games.  I really enjoy the not looking for lost balls rule.

[PGertner]

.....because I am a Golf Course Superintendent.....

and am educated, well compensated, and very professional.....

Patrick Gertner
Potowomut Golf Club
East Greenwich, RI

[Sam Morrow]

Harvey Penick wrote a book about this so everyone on this site is my friend.

[Michael Dugger]

Funny, strange post.

1.  My clubs click in my bag.  A lot.
2.  I'm very curious, ask lots of questions, and I talk way too much, unless we're playing for something that, in my opinion, is worth being quiet and concentrating on.

I can't really say I agree with this statement.  I know far bigger blabber mouths.

[Jason Connor]

John,
1. I will not be helping you find your lost ball.
2. I will not be admiring your shots nor congratulating you for your fine play.
3. I will not be stopping at the turn.
4. I will be walking far in front of you while you take forever to play.
5. I will not be giving you any putts, of any length, ever.
6. I will give you accurate rulings, even when you don't like them.
7. I will insist that you post your real score.
8. I will not engage in convoluted betting games.
9. I will probably be leaving the club immediately after the round.   
10. I will likely be available tomorrow for more of the same.

Ditto. 

But remove 1/2 and insert

1. I'm a walker.  But I walk fast, play ready golf, and will be looking BACKWARDS at you with an air of impatience.
2.  I will never drink on the course (not that I don't drink; there's just a time for that).

[Marty Bonnar]

You're not welcome in Scotland.
But I'm still coming to America whenever the hell I like.

F.

[Ken Moum]

When did the noun "golf" become a verb?  I really hate that.....

Been a verb for a LOOOONG time.

Golfing is a sport like shooting, running, bolwing, hunting and fishing.

The participants are all given the *er suffix, shooter, runner, bowler, rider, hunter, fisher, golfer.

I have a book published many decades ago by the Sunday Times called, "Go Golfing in Great Britain," good enough for me.

K

[Ted Sturges]

Ted,

You have played Victoria National enough to know that losing a ball does not guarantee a loss of hole even in match play.  Have you ever seen two good friends in a rules dispute?  For no other reason than the rules being too complicated it can end friendships.  When you tell a guy that his ball did not cross a hazard 200 yds up the fairway you are not calling him a cheater.  You're calling him something, I'm not ever sure what, but not quite a cheater.  Not quite.

John,

1.  I generally only choose to play golf with friends
2.  Because I have been trained in the rules of golf, I always "help" people with the rules (MUCH different that having a "rules dispute" or calling a penalty on a fellow competitor)
3.  If I'm playing with someone who desperately wants to beat me out of $X.XX, I've chosen my "golf friend" poorly (and this can be corrected by gracefully choosing not to play with that person again).
4.  I am uncomfortable winning or losing significant cash from/to my "golf friends" (I dont' feel good about either).
5.  My standard game is to play a singles match against a good friend and the standard wager is dinner (and thank you Ran for picking up so many of these the last few years).  Winning or losing that bet (and sharing dinner with someone I enjoy) is a success either way.  Playing a match (and not worrying about score or having to hole out if the hole has been lost) can be done in closer to 3 hours than 5.  That is my kind of golf.  Give it a try.  I truly believe there will be less for you to hate.

TS

[Tim Martin]

Ted,

You have played Victoria National enough to know that losing a ball does not guarantee a loss of hole even in match play.  Have you ever seen two good friends in a rules dispute?  For no other reason than the rules being too complicated it can end friendships.  When you tell a guy that his ball did not cross a hazard 200 yds up the fairway you are not calling him a cheater.  You're calling him something, I'm not ever sure what, but not quite a cheater.  Not quite.

John,

1.  I generally only choose to play golf with friends
2.  Because I have been trained in the rules of golf, I always "help" people with the rules (MUCH different that having a "rules dispute" or calling a penalty on a fellow competitor)
3.  If I'm playing with someone who desperately wants to beat me out of $X.XX, I've chosen my "golf friend" poorly (and this can be corrected by gracefully choosing not to play with that person again).
4.  I am uncomfortable winning or losing significant cash from/to my "golf friends" (I dont' feel good about either).
5.  My standard game is to play a singles match against a good friend and the standard wager is dinner (and thank you Ran for picking up so many of these the last few years).  Winning or losing that bet (and sharing dinner with someone I enjoy) is a success either way.  Playing a match (and not worrying about score or having to hole out if the hole has been lost) can be done in closer to 3 hours than 5.  That is my kind of golf.  Give it a try.  I truly believe there will be less for you to hate.

TS

Ted- 3 and 4 ring true with me as well. Any time I get the feeling that someone is in it for a money maker it is a complete turn off. Pretty easy to tell when your opponent declines a good good on the 2nd hole from 2 feet in a small stakes Nassau that the day might not turn out as you had planned. I have seen plenty of groups split up over trivial issues related to gambling which should never be a consequence of our great game.

[John Kavanaugh]

Ted,

You have played Victoria National enough to know that losing a ball does not guarantee a loss of hole even in match play.  Have you ever seen two good friends in a rules dispute?  For no other reason than the rules being too complicated it can end friendships.  When you tell a guy that his ball did not cross a hazard 200 yds up the fairway you are not calling him a cheater.  You're calling him something, I'm not ever sure what, but not quite a cheater.  Not quite.

John,

1.  I generally only choose to play golf with friends
2.  Because I have been trained in the rules of golf, I always "help" people with the rules (MUCH different that having a "rules dispute" or calling a penalty on a fellow competitor)
3.  If I'm playing with someone who desperately wants to beat me out of $X.XX, I've chosen my "golf friend" poorly (and this can be corrected by gracefully choosing not to play with that person again).
4.  I am uncomfortable winning or losing significant cash from/to my "golf friends" (I dont' feel good about either).
5.  My standard game is to play a singles match against a good friend and the standard wager is dinner (and thank you Ran for picking up so many of these the last few years).  Winning or losing that bet (and sharing dinner with someone I enjoy) is a success either way.  Playing a match (and not worrying about score or having to hole out if the hole has been lost) can be done in closer to 3 hours than 5.  That is my kind of golf.  Give it a try.  I truly believe there will be less for you to hate.

TS

Ted,

I too only play golf with friends.  GCA events being the rare exception.  Obviously we must get along with each other reasonable well to to have a game that has withstood three days a week for 10 years now.

I never know what significant cash means to any individual, not exactly sure what it means to me.  Let's say more than what the shoes you are wearing today set you back.  That is a good standard and gets the blood pumping.  note:  I couldn't afford to play with Dawson.

I don't want to play in three hours at club where the standard is 4 hrs and 15.  I've got nowhere else I want or need to be.   If I do I'll find something else to do.  Like not go see The Master again.  I should have hit balls yesterday.

The one thing that I can't accept is that the only way I can tolerate the rules of golf is to ignore them.  I'm fine with the group of guys I play for significant amounts of money with because we understand the context of the rules where we play.  We know who is going to take a lemon drop and where.  When a guy does he is properly called out and the problem is resolved.  Sort of.  It all works out over the course of hundreds of rounds.  This is what I meant when I told Davis that playing golf with the same people day after day takes sacrifice, patience and understanding.

Now tournament golf is completely different.  I've played in a few tournaments or so this year and have not been able to get past the fifth hole before witnessing a rules infraction that forced me into an uncomfortable situation.  Where is the fun in that?

No point in even getting into sandbaggers.

I suppose I don't hate golfers, I hate the game.  Thank God for winter.

[Mark McKeever]

Tim,
I saw you post and I got excited you were going to come clean about the pumphouse!   
Mark

[Brian Colbert]

I think I'm a lot better that I really am, I'm 22 but I act like I'm 42, I can see a fatal flaw in your swing but I won't tell you even if you do ask, I wear bright colors, I wear shorts as a guest, and if you invite me to your club I'm going to take you up on it even if it was an empty invitation. That's all I've got for now.

[Mark McKeever]

I will attest to a couple of Colbert's comments.

He came up to Schuylkill and I never thought he would.
He shot a bogey free 69 and wasnt excited 
He never commented on my swing.
He has every loud colored shirt and shorts from Huntington Valley

Mark

[Gib_Papazian]

I've been otherwise occupied with the Redhead finishing our feature film "Writer's Cramp" (shameless plug, see it on Facebook), so have not been climbing into the Treehouse much lately.  That stated -  having just returned from Bandon - my zest for the game has been restored; living through the trauma of another U.S. Open and a mediocre renovation of my beloved Ocean Course soured me a bit, but I've recovered . . . . .

Now, back to the question: Why does Barny hate me?

Actually, I gave it a bit of thought; the answer is obvious: Barny hates me because he hates himself and cannot stand the company of anyone with a darker vision of reality. You see, I know that I am a pedantic ass - a snarky, pompous know-it-all with a helium-filled, overly inflated ego that has not come to terms with the reality of decaying skills, a yippy putter and a chipping game as likely to skull the ball across the green as lay the sod over the top of the new Pro-V1 I am not good enough to play. Unlike most people, who wander through life pretending that everybody says nice things about them, I know the truth. So do you Barny. Your loathsome nature comes out in the cruel things you write - the thin veneer of bullshit, stripped of its courtly Midwestern facade, jeers at people dying of cancer and torments the weak and defenseless.

You hate me because I know that those sanctimonious prayers you say in the church pew every Sunday is just a way to hedge your bet with God. Remember the way you tortured Tom H.? That was a fine way to treat a fellow Jesuit, yet your cruel nature would just not let it go until the harassment drove him from this site. Yet he forgave you, but your iniquitous impulses kept you from balancing the books.  

You hate me because I'm a reflection of you. We are both angry comics, the only difference is our delivery. You hate most people and the courtly pretense you cultivate in person is just that - an invention of your soulless, dark presence. You hate me because we share the same moonless disposition that underpins our friendly persona. Aside from (admittedly many) close friends harvested from this site, I have exactly two people with whom I play golf with at home any regularity; the reason being that I find it difficult to endure the company of most of the membership at my club beyond a drink or two - even having been there for 38 years.

You hate me because I have no illusions about who and what you are. You hate everybody else because they seem beneath you.  

P.S. Golf was used as a verb by C.B. Macdonald.

        

[Bill_McBride]

 

P.S. Golf was used as a verb by C.B. Macdonald.
       

So he's responsible?

I guess designing NGLA and inspiring Old Macdonald balances the books.

Or maybe not.

[Michael Dugger]

Gib, you forgot to add that you are a far better writer than he, as well. 

[Tim Pitner]

Gib, you forgot to add that you are a far better writer than he, as well. 

Yes, but the narcissistic, edgy old man routine wears equally thin. 

[John Kavanaugh]

Gib, you forgot to add that you are a far better writer than he, as well. 

You never read my twitter novel The Ginger Chronicles. Gib tried to form a thought once in 140 characters and poked three eyes out. Poor cat. He knows that I don't hate him because I not only got free golf out of our relationship, he picked me up at the airport to boot.

[Michael Dugger]

Such a concept as "he hates you because he hates himself" is a fallacy, methinks.

I suspect John actually loves quite a lot.  He's just not taken with expressing it, or discussing it, because it's just not very manly.  Men don't talk about their feelings except at funerals, if then.

He goes through life as a self-contradiction, as someone who actually loves and appreciates all he has so deeply and powerfully he'd begin blubbering like Dick Vermeil if one was ever allowed to peak behind the wizard's curtain.

Shocking verbal salvos keep people interested in him, and talking with him, because otherwise he may fade into the background as a typical grumpy mensch is prone to doing.

He's keenly aware that all of his hard work was necessary to his success in life, but a lot of goodwill and luck on the part of others played an equally important role.

And at the end of the day, this places him firmly in the bizarre position of actually being embarrassed, for the world is his oyster and despite everything looking perfect on the outside, he sometimes dreams for a simple life without all the attention.

Such is the plight of modern day wealthy white men in America.  To cope, they seek refuge as far away from others as possible, in a habitat amongst their own type, the private club.

[Gib_Papazian]

Tim,

Guilty as charged on the narcissistic accusation, although I'm a trifle miffed at your assertion that at one tick under 53, I'm branded aged and infirm. Given your delicate sensibilities, I'll try to be less edgy in the future; I parachute in no more than once a month, so you must regard me as that annoying 3rd cousin who barges in during the holidays spoils the polite dinner conversation. If my expelling a little snot bothers you, Kavanaugh must be like having an emotionally disturbed psychotic right next door.

Now, I did not say that I hated Barney, far from it. As a matter of fact, I really enjoy his company - he's a charmingly complex intellectual, stuck in the bowels of America with no outlet for his dark nature but GCA. Methinks it is a bit like a rattlesnake accumulating venom, or a rapist with a semen-retention headache. His outbursts serve as a (relatively harmless) pressure release from the constrictive strait-jacket world that providence has thrust upon him.

I also know for a fact that he does not believe 90% of the discursive drivel he writes - any more than I do. It is all about amusing yourself amusing others.

As for his Twitter speculation, I tried to Tweet once and discovered that I need 200 characters just to clear my throat. Composing concise pith runs contrary to my DNA. My uncle was Bill Saroyan . . . I doubt if he would have Tweeted either.    

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