[John Kavanaugh]

Do golfers outside of America really all get along?  What can we learn from you?

[Colin Macqueen]

We reap as we sow.

Cheers Colin

[Tony_Muldoon]

Honi soit qui mal y pense.

[David Davis]

My two bits (taking this literally and personally) even though we don't know each other:

Why YOU hate me:

- You overly enjoyed playing one of the two grouchy old men in the Muppets in your younger days enough so to continue spreading the joy.
- It's simply far more fun to be controversial and play devils advocate pretending to hate almost everything and everyone including me.
- I sympathize with the Europeans and understand that indeed we all do get along.
- The fact that I'm even answering this thread as a newbie who's not yet met you.
- My replies are far too long...

Why I don't hate you (or anyone else or anything else for that matter)

- I've been informed by several of the usual suspects (veterans here) that you are a damn nice guy in person and nothing like your forum persona, or perhaps you just keep it all bottled up for the online rants. Either way I can respect that.
- It's not good to pass judgement on a golfer until you've walked at least 18 with them. Especially if it's on my home course as no guest, regardless of their hcp has yet to break 80 from the tips. That is IMO a true test of a golfers character, getting your butt kicked by a course and still enjoying yourself and being a good partner for your group.
- It's hard for me to imagine that anyone that calls themselves a golfer and has learned to live with the good and bad incidents in a golf round hating anything in life. Should that be the case I'd strongly suggest they go back to the course and examine the relative similarities and how they deal with them. Show me a golfer full of hate and I'll show you someone who finds/has little to no pleasure/respect in this great sport or life in general.



What do I do that makes me hate worthy to the average golfer:

In my small pond here I am a member of the best course in the country by a mile and there with have guaranteed easy access to ALL the other contenders at a reciprocated rate of 30 euro/$38 USD/24 GBP. 5 of these courses are good enough on a world scale to go for US 300 plus/round or more in the US/UK.

Locals might hate me because I host a lot of foreign guests with great joy in doing so yet host very few locals as they just don't have the same respect and appreciation for the game (in general terms) and are far less friendly IMHO.

I've arranged my life to spend more time golfing than working and have this not interfere with family time (divorced as I am). Although I'm not suggesting the latter is a good idea for anyone and I fully accept being broke most of the time as a result. (ok not really on the last part)

[John Kavanaugh]

Locals might hate me because I host a lot of foreign guests with great joy in doing so yet host very few locals as they just don't have the same respect and appreciation for the game (in general terms) and are far less friendly IMHO.

How do you determine the level of respect and appreciation for the game of these locals who you are not interested in hosting?  What are some examples of their behavior that turns you away from their potential as a golf buddy?

[Bill_McBride]

Is navel gazing facilitated by having a really big navel?

[David Davis]

Locals might hate me because I host a lot of foreign guests with great joy in doing so yet host very few locals as they just don't have the same respect and appreciation for the game (in general terms) and are far less friendly IMHO.

How do you determine the level of respect and appreciation for the game of these locals who you are not interested in hosting?  What are some examples of their behavior that turns you away from their potential as a golf buddy?

I didn't say I didn't have any local golf buddies. I do. However, built into my response is 20 years of living in NL and understanding of the culture and it's people although there are always exceptions. Also built in is extensive contact with local golfers and many other factors which are not appropriate for this forum. One such factor I will mention is the fact that no matter how many times (generally speaking) you invite a Dutch person/family over for say dinner at your house, this will rarely ever be reciprocated. I'm not saying that's why you invite someone but try it in any other country and I've lived in 6 myself and travelled to and have friends in a few others.

That's just one small example, it's not the rule per se however, ask a 1000 expats and you will get that answer more times than not.

I guess the other big point is, someone needs to be pretty enthusiastic about golf to make the trip to NL, in fact, I've never hosted anyone that hasn't been from my recollection, not saying I wouldn't however, as a the right beautiful lady could talk me into just about anything and has on many occasions. But I digress, and you asked for examples. I've given one and that's a big one to be honest.

I've also had many locals be disrespectful to our course policies, specific examples include, ignoring the "no telephone usage" in the clubhouse rule, smoking and dropping their cigarette/cigar remains on the course and having to ask them to clean it up, not replacing divots or fixing ball marks and not being pleasant company due to how poorly they believe they are playing, not realizing the course is simply very tough and the list goes on. As mentioned I've never once had any experience of the sort from a guest I hosted from abroad.

Maybe that's just normal and perhaps the same anywhere. International borders due a lot to weeding out the type of people that would make the trip all the way to a place like NL. I'll consider myself lucky again.

Does that make sense and answer your question?

[Jason Thurman]

I don't think I hate any more golfers than I do non-golfers. Still, I have to admit that there's a weird vibe that a lot of them give off, and it's the same vibe that I get from people who played point guard on a team their father coached growing up. It sort of feels like I'm with someone who's trying to act the part of a "frat boy" in an extremely serious network drama but with a healthy and unspoken dose of need for acceptance just under the surface. This is why I play most of my golf with football players who grew up in the inner city. Well, that and the fact that if I hit into someone the victim usually feels compelled to apologize to me for not playing more quickly when he sees how large our group is.

I also quietly judge anyone who doesn't take their hat off inside, and smirk a bit to myself every time I do it. The size of the smirk is inversely proportional to the quality and cost of the course.

[Mike McGuire]

What do you do that makes you hateable?  What do architects do that make them hateable too?

Its not what we do, rather your need to judge  courses, behavior etc.

That hurts considering ...........

Does that mean I won't see you at the pancake social tomorrow?

[George Pazin]

What do you do that makes you hateable?

I spray the ball off the tee and criticize the architect for not giving me enough width.

[Mike Hendren]

1.  I'll accept a comp without remorse.
2.  I'm fat and can't keep my shirt-tail in.
3.  I am not competitive at all.
4.  I am self-righteous.
5.  In my embarrassment I apologize for poor shots.
6.  I am a Democrat.
7.  I am still uncomfortable at nice clubs (see #6)
8.  I can be a bogus pollyanna.
9.  Rich Choi owns me.
10.I think I'm funny.

Hey you don't know me if you don't like me.
You say you care less how I feel.
How many of you who'd sit and judge me
Have walked the streets of Bakersfield.
- Buck and Dwight

[John Kavanaugh]

Locals might hate me because I host a lot of foreign guests with great joy in doing so yet host very few locals as they just don't have the same respect and appreciation for the game (in general terms) and are far less friendly IMHO.

How do you determine the level of respect and appreciation for the game of these locals who you are not interested in hosting?  What are some examples of their behavior that turns you away from their potential as a golf buddy?

I didn't say I didn't have any local golf buddies. I do. However, built into my response is 20 years of living in NL and understanding of the culture and it's people although there are always exceptions. Also built in is extensive contact with local golfers and many other factors which are not appropriate for this forum. One such factor I will mention is the fact that no matter how many times (generally speaking) you invite a Dutch person/family over for say dinner at your house, this will rarely ever be reciprocated. I'm not saying that's why you invite someone but try it in any other country and I've lived in 6 myself and travelled to and have friends in a few others.

That's just one small example, it's not the rule per se however, ask a 1000 expats and you will get that answer more times than not.

I guess the other big point is, someone needs to be pretty enthusiastic about golf to make the trip to NL, in fact, I've never hosted anyone that hasn't been from my recollection, not saying I wouldn't however, as a the right beautiful lady could talk me into just about anything and has on many occasions. But I digress, and you asked for examples. I've given one and that's a big one to be honest.

I've also had many locals be disrespectful to our course policies, specific examples include, ignoring the "no telephone usage" in the clubhouse rule, smoking and dropping their cigarette/cigar remains on the course and having to ask them to clean it up, not replacing divots or fixing ball marks and not being pleasant company due to how poorly they believe they are playing, not realizing the course is simply very tough and the list goes on. As mentioned I've never once had any experience of the sort from a guest I hosted from abroad.

Maybe that's just normal and perhaps the same anywhere. International borders due a lot to weeding out the type of people that would make the trip all the way to a place like NL. I'll consider myself lucky again.

Does that make sense and answer your question?

David,

The only thing that doesn't make sense is that you said "Why I don't hate you (or anyone else or anything else for that matter)" in your first post.  I can't argue with anything else you said above and regret to admit that I have many of the same feelings about other people as you.  If I have any regret as a golfer it is that I do not have the patience to host all the fine people in my life that would enjoy a great round of golf.  It is pure selfishness on my part.  What else could it be to get pissed off about such petty crap.

It is always easier to host a stranger, especially when walking.  What is really difficult is developing friendships with golfers that last over a weekly game for any long period of time.  That takes sacrifice, patience and understanding.

[David Davis]

What is really difficult is developing friendships with golfers that last over a weekly game for any long period of time.  That takes sacrifice, patience and understanding.

Ok here I would not agree, as we have the choice to pick these people from friends and members of our clubs etc. I don't see any sacrifice involved although perhaps patience is in some circumstances. I'm extremely patient so that's not an issue but my patience has never been tested in that sense. As for as understanding, not sure I'm with you there either. Understanding of what? I imagine this is something that I would assume goes without saying. I don't find it difficult to get along with people and am rarely annoyed by others, when I am it's always of interest to me. That often says more about me than about them, so I attempt to turn it into a learning experience when this does happen and if it's annoying enough I just take note to avoid it if possible in the future.

[John Kavanaugh]

What is really difficult is developing friendships with golfers that last over a weekly game for any long period of time.  That takes sacrifice, patience and understanding.

Ok here I would not agree, as we have the choice to pick these people from friends and members of our clubs etc. I don't see any sacrifice involved although perhaps patience is in some circumstances. I'm extremely patient so that's not an issue but my patience has never been tested in that sense. As for as understanding, not sure I'm with you there either. Understanding of what? I imagine this is something that I would assume goes without saying. I don't find it difficult to get along with people and am rarely annoyed by others, when I am it's always of interest to me. That often says more about me than about them, so I attempt to turn it into a learning experience when this does happen and if it's annoying enough I just take note to avoid it if possible in the future.

David,

Have you ever had a regular foresome where you compete against each other week after week?  The rules of golf alone are built to destroy relationships.  Do you have any idea how difficult it is to pay off a friend on a bet when you knew before the match ever began that he doesn't know or care how to properly take a drop at a lateral hazard?  You can laugh it off once or twice but after ten years or so a guy is eventually gonna blow up.

Now if you just play rake and run and support each other in the lie about your skill level have at it.  That isn't a golf buddy, it's a mistress.

[Dan Kelly]

At least part of the Midwest must be getting some rain, finally.

[John Kavanaugh]

At least part of the Midwest must be getting some rain, finally.

The problem is that I made it rain last night and posted drunk again.  Sometime very early this morning I woke up and tried to save the thread by focusing how we judge others that is what preventing the growth of the game over any other factor.  I think David has been a big help in making this point.

I fully understand that my problems with other golfers lie 100% at my feet.  I just don't believe that I am the only angry golfer out there.

[Rick Shefchik]

The other evening I went to the range to hit balls to avoid going home before I was served dinner. I picked the spot at the very end assuring myself of at least having no one behind me. A nice fellow soon arrived and chose to pick the area contiguous to mine. I almost didn't hate him until he got the sniffles. Hit, sniff, hit, sniff, sniff hit, hit, sniff.  It can't be a coincidence that this stuff only happens to me.

One of the most aggravating experiences I've ever had with golf happened a dozen years ago when I went to a deserted practice green to work on my putting. There were at least 15 holes cut into this very large practice green, but soon after I began putting, another guy showed up and began putting at the hole I was putting to. So I moved, and he again putted to the hole I was putting to. I moved again. This time he putted at the hole I was standing next to and his first putt hit me in the foot. I looked up at the guy and said, "Can't you putt to a different hole?" and he replies something to the effect of, "Geez, are you a grouch."

I almost always experience self-loathing when I become grouchy playing golf, but not that time.

[Mark McKeever]

1. I'm a poser
2. I'm from Pennsylvania
3. I expect to hit good shots every time
4. I wear logo'd shirts from other clubs
5. I can make putts
6. I pimp my home course
7. I'm good friends with 007
8. I get up and down a lot
9. I'm a "homer"
10. I like Merion

Mark

[John Kavanaugh]

The other evening I went to the range to hit balls to avoid going home before I was served dinner. I picked the spot at the very end assuring myself of at least having no one behind me. A nice fellow soon arrived and chose to pick the area contiguous to mine. I almost didn't hate him until he got the sniffles. Hit, sniff, hit, sniff, sniff hit, hit, sniff.  It can't be a coincidence that this stuff only happens to me.

One of the most aggravating experiences I've ever had with golf happened a dozen years ago when I went to a deserted practice green to work on my putting. There were at least 15 holes cut into this very large practice green, but soon after I began putting, another guy showed up and began putting at the hole I was putting to. So I moved, and he again putted to the hole I was putting to. I moved again. This time he putted at the hole I was standing next to and his first putt hit me in the foot. I looked up at the guy and said, "Can't you putt to a different hole?" and he replies something to the effect of, "Geez, are you a grouch."

I almost always experience self-loathing when I become grouchy playing golf, but not that time.

Thank you, thank you, thank you.  I knew it couldn't just be me.

[Cory Lewis]

You hate me because I play too fast!  I also get mad when more than one person in the group says "Gee Cory you sure don't take a lot of time"  as if I'm not aware of that fact?

[Dan Kelly]

I almost always experience self-loathing when I become grouchy playing golf, but not that time.

... until the guy started making a bunch of putts!

[John Kavanaugh]

You hate me because I play too fast!  I also get mad when more than one person in the group says "Gee Cory you sure don't take a lot of time"  as if I'm not aware of that fact?

That is true.  Because of people like you (fast) and me (slow) the pace of play problem will never be solved on anything short of an empty course.  I understand that I am the only slow playing cart baller on this site but I have plenty of brethren who hate the rake and run crowd as much as you hate us card and pencil types.  I just want everyone to be able to play as fast as they want to play not being dictated to by those either in front or behind them.

One thing that I do ask before ever making a tee time is to ask both who is in front of my group and who is behind us.  More people could do the same instead of only focusing on who is in front.

[Tim Pitner]

I hate myself for reading (very briefly) the drivel in this thread.  I expect to get over it quickly.

[JR Potts]

I'm going to start raising my arms to get the pretend crowd to cheer on the first tee when I'm getting ready to tee off.  I'm also going to start screaming like Ian Poulter when I make putts.

Every day is the Ryder Cup for me.

[BCrosby]

Honi soit qui mal y pense.

Tony - As a motto on a national flag, the above is fascinating. Years ago (I can't remember why) I tried to figure out the different ways it could be understood. I think I gave up after five or six. Sir Gawain the the Green Knights live on, non?

Bob

 

[Tags:]

Tags:

[Tags:]

Tags:

Call to undefined function theme_linktree()