[John Kavanaugh]

What is your favorite Driver/8 iron hole?  Is there a better non-driveable par 4?

[Mark McKeever]

Gotta go with 2 at Pine Valley.  Assuming you don't miss the fairway!

Mark

[Adam Clayman]

Perfectly Repetitive.

[Brent Hutto]

The tenth at Royal Cinque Ports would be my favorite. Not quite a "short par 4" in terms of being drivable, in fact it seems most often to have been played Driver/7-iron but if I hit a perfect driver shot then 8-iron would be the club. Much depends on the wind of course but pretty much that's the length hole that fits the bill.

[John Kavanaugh]

Perfectly Repetitive.

How is it repetitive when so few golfers hit Driver/8 iron the same?

[Steve Strasheim]

So, would that would be about 400-425?

Guess it would depend on other factors, hazards green site, etc.

I do believe it is more fun to have shorter clubs like an 8 iron into the green.

[Alex Miller]

If a hole is anything/anything every time it is not the perfect hole. I think this is actually what Adam was referring to.

Now a hole that calls for driver off the tee every time but has variety in the approach club still has a great deal of potential. Whether it be from dogleg, terrain, etc..., putting some precedence on the tee shot to give a reward off the tee is a good thing.

For example: #11 at Rustic Canyon is 450 yards uphill but downwind. I have had anything (downwind, the prevailing direction) between PW and 4I because the hole is angled and the ball does not always run out the same way. Generally the hole is around Driver/8I for me, and I would say it's one of my favorite holes of this length that I've played partly because of the variety it has offered in approach length.

I'm sure you weren't implying otherwise in your OP, John, but it's probably still worth discussing. And yes, I enjoy Driver/8 iron holes very much, perhaps most of all.  

[John Kavanaugh]

For reasonably healthy males under normal weather conditions the length of a Driver/8 iron hole would vary between 300 and 500 yds. 

[Peter Pallotta]

For reasonably healthy males under normal weather conditions the length of a Driver/8 iron hole would vary between 300 and 500 yds. 

Sure, but only on a planet not known as Earth.

Actually, I do hit Driver-8 iron quite a lot over the course of a round, but mostly because the differences in yardage hole by hole seem to be off-set almost exactly (and almost always) by differences in the quality and length of my various tee shots.

[JMEvensky]

Actually, I do hit Driver-8 iron quite a lot over the course of a round, but mostly because the differences in yardage hole by hole seem to be off-set almost exactly (and almost always) by differences in the quality and length of my various tee shots.

Well,at least you've dialed in your 8 iron.

[John Kavanaugh]

Maybe Peter subconsciously hits his drives to his comfort zone which just happens to be an 8 iron.  I personally believe that I find comfort in an 8 iron because I grew up playing a course that only had 150 yd markers.  The only time I was ever perfectly content with my yardage was at that marker with an 8 iron in my hand.

[Tim Martin]

Seems arbitrary. What is perfect about it that differs from driver-wedge,nine,seven?

[JMEvensky]

Maybe Peter subconsciously hits his drives to his comfort zone which just happens to be an 8 iron.  I personally believe that I find comfort in an 8 iron because I grew up playing a course that only had 150 yd markers.  The only time I was ever perfectly content with my yardage was at that marker with an 8 iron in my hand.

Scary,but I know exactly what you mean.

Unfortunately those 150 yard markers now mean 7 iron for me--and will probably mean 6 iron in a couple of years.

[Ross Tuddenham]

John,

Why driver/ 8 iron?

Do you find that whatever length of hole that is for you that it more interesting features appear more than on other lengths of hole?  Or do you struggle with longer irons so therefore enjoy the chance to pick out how you want to play the shot, then actually execute the strategy you picked, as you execute your 8 iron more often?

[Brent Hutto]

Ignore the driver part for a moment.

If I'm hitting a 5-iron to a green, the object is to get somewhere on the green or fringe and to minimize the problems if I fail to reach either.

If I'm hitting wedge to a green, the object is to hit it approximately pin high and give or take 20 feet of the hole.

For me, an 8-iron is a perfect example of a club that I'm quite capable of hitting right up to the hole but I'm also quite capable of missing the green altogether. So playing a hole where a normal drive puts me at "8-iron distance" and especially if it's a hole where the green and its surrounds provide some interest in terms of where the ball will end up relative to where it lands is sort of a sweet spot. I'm going to be faced with interesting shots that are both likely to succeed and possible to hit into a bad spot with just a so-so shot.

[Jason Topp]

In some ways, a driver/ 8 iron for me is probably the worst length hole - somewhere around 390 yards depending on slope, wind, ground conditions, etc..  Long hitters will have a driver/half wedge and short hitters will not be able to get there. Nonetheless, many courses provide a steady diet of holes of this length. 

[ward peyronnin]

I think the subliminal here is
9 iron is close enough to lessen angst
8 iron can be worked a little but still far away enough for variability and trouble

personally my preference would be a 7 iron distance as i feel i can pull off more different types of shots: knockdowns and other ways to work it

[ward peyronnin]

Also it is indeed a comfort zone with a full swing normally that doesn't imply a less than manly hole

[Josh Tarble]

I think 3-wood/8-iron may be the perfect hole...as long as the DZ has some interesting features.  This can possibly mean - driver/wedge for an aggressive player or still be 3-iron or hybrid/6-iron.

A hole at my new club is just this - a creek runs about 280ish from the tee with fairway all the way up to it.  Trees narrow the DZ as well.  Driver all the way up to creek leaves a nice little SW in but is risky because of the creek and trees.  Iron off the tee leaves about 5/6 iron in to a difficult green. 3wood and 8/9 iron seems to be the best compromise.

[Stephen Davis]

The average iron hit into the greens on Tour is an 8 iron. This was actually one if the principles behind the tee it forward initiative. They want that to be the case with the average golfer as well.

[Brent Hutto]

That's one way of encapsulating my reasons for playing a lot of rounds lately from the "senior" tees at my home course. From the regular men's tees there is maybe one Par 4 on each nine where if I absolutely nail my tee shot I might end up with an 8-iron into the green. Otherwise it's all 5-iron and fairway woods. Even the Par 5 third shots are at best 7-irons from the regular tees.

Moving up one set of tees I'll have at least a couple holes of Driver/8-iron or Driver/9-iron per round even with no unusually good tee shots.

[Sven Nilsen]

I'm guessing this another of John's attempts to point out the flaws in the rating process.  Its all subjective.

For me, I'm pretty happy if I'm hitting 8 iron into a green after a good drive.  But I also like a good 3-wood approach from time to time, and no individual shot is more fun to me on a consistent basis than a full wedge.

[Tommy Williamsen]

To be honest I like driver and 180 yards.  It is far enough to make hitting the green somewhat challenging  and close enough to think birdie.

[ward peyronnin]

So by perfect hole does that mean if all the par fours on a course were only one distance what would that ideal distance be?

Does it mean what distance gives the most universal satisfaction? Combination of variety and comfort being able to pull off the shot or as Tommy feels what delivers more satisfaction for surmounting degree of difficulty without being too terrifying? I intend to prefer the former as does apparently Brett for the perfect whole; does not mean I don't enjoy playing successfully the more challenging tests.

or ---weee ooh weee ooh--- something else

[Tim Pitner]

I like a good medium-length par 4--say driver and then 150-170 yards (about a 9 iron to 7 iron for me).  I don't subscribe to this belief/trend that the best par 4s are either short or long.  I can see why these holes might not be that interesting for pros, but for non-low handicap players, they offer the chance of a well-earned birdie, but aren't gimme pars either (sometimes far from it).  

Bandon Dunes ##1 and 11, Pacific Dunes #8, Ballyneal #18 and Common Ground ##5, 13 and 16 come to mind as good, mid-length par 4s.

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