What makes a good Greens Committee Chairman?

[Brian Potash]

I am considering asking for this job at my board meeting this week.  To those who have held the job, or feel qualified to answer, what makes a good greens committee chairman?

I think it's worth noting that we will have a new Superintendent starting in the next month or so.

Also, I have no knowledge of agronomy.  Do you think that is a deal breaker, not really relevant, or somewhere in the middle.

Thanks in advance.

Brian

[Dan Herrmann]

Is your club equity or non- equity?

[Adrian_Stiff]

I am considering asking for this job at my board meeting this week.  To those who have held the job, or feel qualified to answer, what makes a good greens committee chairman?

I think it's worth noting that we will have a new Superintendent starting in the next month or so.

Also, I have no knowledge of agronomy.  Do you think that is a deal breaker, not really relevant, or somewhere in the middle.

Thanks in advance.

Brian

Brian - I think you have answered your own question if you have no knowledge of agronomy. Turf knowledge is more important than understanding what you think makes a great hole.

[Patrick_Mucci]

I am considering asking for this job at my board meeting this week.  To those who have held the job, or feel qualified to answer, what makes a good greens committee chairman?

No committee members  

I think it's worth noting that we will have a new Superintendent starting in the next month or so.

Also, I have no knowledge of agronomy.  Do you think that is a deal breaker, not really relevant, or somewhere in the middle.

Brian,

I think it takes three primary ingredients.

1.     A passion for the entity, your club/course
2.     Time, having the time to devote to the task
3.     Intelligence

If you have those three, you'll be sufficiently prepared to handle the job.

If you have no prior experience on serving on green committees, your learning curve may be flatter, but, with the three primary ingredients, you should get up to speed quickly.

You probably face a more difficult task due to the fact that both you and the superintendent are new to the position this year.
You don't have a tenured superintendent who could bring you up to speed on the specifics and idiosyncracies of the course, so I think your challenge is greater.

Why is a new superintendent coming aboard ?
Why isn't the former Green Chairman remaining in power ?

Thanks in advance.

Brian

[Mark Pearce]

I am considering asking for this job at my board meeting this week.  To those who have held the job, or feel qualified to answer, what makes a good greens committee chairman?

I think it's worth noting that we will have a new Superintendent starting in the next month or so.

Also, I have no knowledge of agronomy.  Do you think that is a deal breaker, not really relevant, or somewhere in the middle.

Thanks in advance.

Brian

Brian - I think you have answered your own question if you have no knowledge of agronomy. Turf knowledge is more important than understanding what you think makes a great hole.

Why?  Isn't it the head greenkeeper's job to understand agronomy and the Greens Chairman's to get the best out of the greenkeeper?

[Adrian_Stiff]

Well a lot of clubs dont have the role anymore of Greens Committee Chairman (Head of) because they realise its rather stupid to have someone with a low level of technical knowledge over-ride someone with superior knowledge. Some clubs are still stupid and do have the local solicitor over ride the greenkeeper adapting the peter theory that someone highly competent in one subject will be best in all subjects.

The greenkeeper/superintendent should be spending his time doing his job not educating some incoming fresher that does not understand the seasons and the reasons for feeding and adjusting height cuts. Clubs should feel secure that their head man can do the job, give him the brief, the budget and let him do it. If he does not produce then is the time for further guidance.

[Dan Herrmann]

Adrian - So well said.  Completely agree. The Head Greenkeeper should be the expert so let him do the job.   That is how at our club and it works great.   

One other question for Brian.  Who is the architect, and, if  alive, does the club still have a relationship with him?

[Brian Potash]

Is your club equity or non- equity?

Equity, though there is definitely a possibility we could be non-equity in the near future

[Brian Potash]

I am considering asking for this job at my board meeting this week.  To those who have held the job, or feel qualified to answer, what makes a good greens committee chairman?

No committee members  

I think it's worth noting that we will have a new Superintendent starting in the next month or so.

Also, I have no knowledge of agronomy.  Do you think that is a deal breaker, not really relevant, or somewhere in the middle.

Brian,

I think it takes three primary ingredients.

1.     A passion for the entity, your club/course
2.     Time, having the time to devote to the task
3.     Intelligence

If you have those three, you'll be sufficiently prepared to handle the job.

If you have no prior experience on serving on green committees, your learning curve may be flatter, but, with the three primary ingredients, you should get up to speed quickly.

You probably face a more difficult task due to the fact that both you and the superintendent are new to the position this year.
You don't have a tenured superintendent who could bring you up to speed on the specifics and idiosyncracies of the course, so I think your challenge is greater.

Why is a new superintendent coming aboard ?
Why isn't the former Green Chairman remaining in power ?

Thanks in advance.

Brian

The old super was fired/resigned over the Summer when there was a serious issue with the greens

I believe the understanding is that the old green chairman will not be allowed to remain in the job

[Brian Potash]

Adrian - So well said.  Completely agree. The Head Greenkeeper should be the expert so let him do the job.   That is how at our club and it works great.   

One other question for Brian.  Who is the architect, and, if  alive, does the club still have a relationship with him?

Tom Fazio and there is still a relationship with Fazio's group.  Course is Hudson National in Westchester County, NY

[Tommy Williamsen]

Having watched supers have trouble because of board's interference, I think two things seem to be important: understand what the super needs and supporting his needs to the BOD. 

[Brian Potash]

Appreciate all the responses.

I think that the ingredients that would hopefully make me good for the job are -

I have the time

I was thinking that my lack of any agronomy knowledge might be a plus, as I will spend my time more productively as -

an intermediary between the Super and the membership, so they can come to me instead of all going to the Super directly

trying to think of creative ideas relating to the course - maybe getting kids from the local schools involved in part time work at the course, combined with some type of basic class on agronomy;  other ideas like that that might be outside the box

helping sell the membership on both what the Super is doing as well as longer range projects that need to be undertaken.

As I'm in no way qualified to tell the Super how to do his job, I can spend my time making his job easier.

That was more along the lines of what I was thinking.

[hhuffines]

Be fully prepared to be second guessed and disliked even if things go well.  Hone your communication skills too... I did it for two years with a change to our greens so it was stressful but enjoyable.   I liked having a good committee but have often heard of good greens chairmen being referred to as benevolent dictators.  

[Mike McGuire]

Don't do it. It's very likely to turn out bad for you. Better to work behind the scenes if you have good input.

[Bill_McBride]

I'm very proud of the two years I spent as Greens Chair.  During that period we agreed to stop overseeding with poa trivialis (rye) for the winter.   This avoided the double whammies of transition in both spring and fall. 

I think the Greens Committee chair's job is to act as a supportive buffer between the super and the board and ultimately the membership.  I'm no turf head but was able to help communication. 

Oh yes, I used to take our young super into the office, log onto GCA.com and show him a photo of the bunkers at Hoylake for an example of what he needed to do in front of our fairway bunkers!

[Patrick_Mucci]

Adrian & Dan,

Your responses are naive at best.

So the superintendent is to act independently ?

He's to consult Kreskin to determine the membership's priorities ?

He's to have no oversight ?

He's to have no advocate with knowledge of his operation at the board level ?

Let's just do away with every chair and let the Superintendent, Head Pro and Chef do whatever they want without any supervision or direction.

I'm surprised that you guys don't form a consulting firm and tout your concept to all of the clubs that are doing it the old fashioned way

[Jason Topp]

Having served in a co-chair role (which drove me nuts) for several years, my basic advice is to spend some time on the committee before seeking the chair position.  Setting that aside, I loved the role but there are several tasks you need to embrace:

I view the role as green chair to be custodian of the club's money spent on the care of the golf course.

 You need to understand the club's expectation and desires with respect to the upkeep of the course.

 You need to advocate for the budget from the club to meet those expectations.

You need to have an understanding of what is going well and poorly with respect to the condition of the course from the perspective of the membership and from the perspective of the super and be willing to weigh in to resolve differences on that front and to advocate for one side or the other as needed.

 You need to do everything you can to make sure those dollars are being spent in the most effective manner possible. 

You need to anticipate how to deal with the budget this year and for the long term so that you can anticipate and address issues over the course of years rather than in the face of a problem.  It is important to have an understanding of the overall direction of the club from a business perspective in order to effectively address these issues.

When something goes wrong on the course (which it inevitably will) you need to be able to communicate to the membership what happened and what is being done to address the issue. 

When a member makes a stupid suggestion or complaint you need to be able to handle such suggestions.

All of these requirements demand communication and listening skills.  None require a phd.

[Jason Topp]

Brian:

I found these articles from the USGA website very helpful.


http://www.usga.org/Content.aspx?id=25981

There are also a bunch of useful threads on this website if you do a search.

[Terry Lavin]

Somebody who is willing to be educated by the superintendent and other experts. Somebody who is clever enough to suspect he's being buffaloed by these same people. Somebody who's self-aware enough to realize he's nothing more than a well intentioned liaison between the superintendent and membership. Somebody who's stupid enough to agree to accept all of the grief he'll get for his volunteerism.

Most good guys make the mistake of joining the board of their club. It's an impulse better resisted, in my judgment.

[Mike_Young]

IMHO the most critical element you could bring to the position would be to have seen as many other clubs around the country as you could see.  I often see some guy as board member or green chair who has only seen what is in his area and bases so many decisions on just what he has seen.  If not then he only bases it on resorts he has seen and in many cases it leads bad results or expectations.  As Terry says expect to be buffaloed in many instances  BUT my question to you is WHY?  Are you injured and can't play golf and just want something to do?  If not run from it...

[Jason Topp]

I understand the negatives of taking on the role, but if you care about the club and its course, I believe there is a lot to be said for getting involved in making the course the best it can be rather than sitting on the sidelines and complaining. 

I'm pretty proud of the way in which we faced some tough challenges.  I feel like I spent four years protecting a fantastic golf course from a lot of dumb ideas. I got to see how some minor changes to the course, positive and negative, impacted the course's design in many ways I would never have anticipated.   I also gained great appreciation for the fact that a course serves a wide variety of people looking at the game from completely different angles.  I became more adept at running formal meetings, and, more importantly, dealing with the communications that must take place between meetings.  I learned how stressful the day is in the spring when the covers come off the greens for the first time.  I developed great respect for the role of superintendent and all of the workers we barely notice while on the course. 

[Mark Pearce]

I have to agree with Patrick.  Adrian's answer to my question is nonsense.  If he were right then the green keeper could not be managed at all.  No one in my law firm knows as much about my area of law as I do.  That does not mean that  I am not answerable to my partners for my practice.  Someone needs to oversea the work of the green keeper.  That does not mean micro-managing, it means working with him, listening to him but keeping a check on his progress.  Good "people skills", a willingness to be educated and the ability to discuss, agree and monitor clear objectives must be essential.

[Adrian_Stiff]

Mark- You have done your usual. You dont read. I have not said the green keeper cant be managed at all. We have a situation where a man has declared " I have no idea about growing grass but I would like the top job"..... this man should know that he should learn first then do it, there must be better qualified men at this moment in time. Its either an important job or its not.

I am not saying a green keeper should not work under instruction, but they will wok best given a brief and a budget. He is there to manage the grass on the golf course and its a very technical job.

[Adrian_Stiff]

I'm very proud of the two years I spent as Greens Chair.  During that period we agreed to stop overseeding with poa trivialis (rye) for the winter.   This avoided the double whammies of transition in both spring and fall. 

I think the Greens Committee chair's job is to act as a supportive buffer between the super and the board and ultimately the membership.  I'm no turf head but was able to help communication. 

Oh yes, I used to take our young super into the office, log onto GCA.com and show him a photo of the bunkers at Hoylake for an example of what he needed to do in front of our fairway bunkers!

Poa Trivalis IS NOT RYE.  Rye grass is LOLIUM.  Poa trivialis is rough stalked meadow grass.

[Adrian_Stiff]

Adrian & Dan,

Your responses are naive at best.

So the superintendent is to act independently ?NO

He's to consult Kreskin to determine the membership's priorities ?HE WORKS TO A BRIEF PREPARED BY THE BOARD/COMMITTEE

He's to have no oversight ?HE WORKS UNDER THE GM AND PERHAPS A CONSULTING AGRONOMIST WHO VISITS ONCE OR TWICE A YEAR

He's to have no advocate with knowledge of his operation at the board level ?HE CAN PRODUCE HIS OWN MONTHLY/QUARTERLY REPORT THAT CAN BE DISTRIBUTED

Let's just do away with every chair and let the Superintendent, Head Pro and Chef do whatever they want without any supervision or direction.

I'm surprised that you guys don't form a consulting firm and tout your concept to all of the clubs that are doing it the old fashioned way

YES, ITS THE WAY FORWARD