What are the great golf holes that don't have a penal hazard?

[Kyle Harris]

The most fundamental hazard in golf is distance.

I like examples like the tenth at Riviera because the distance isn't overly penal either.

[Sean_A]

The most fundamental hazard in golf is distance.

I like examples like the tenth at Riviera because the distance isn't overly penal either.

I know we had a ding dong about this before, but I am still not sure how distance is the fundamental penal hazard.  At what point is distance not penal?  Is it a 2 foot putt, 40 foot putt, 50 yard chip, 100 yard approach etc.  In other words, far more shots are played than not where distance is not the most penal hazard faced.  Indeed, it should be argued that on well designed courses often times the best and safest play is the longer play - which is the anti-thesis of your theory.  I still can't get my head around your idea.

Personally, I would prefer folks not use "penal" in terms of placement and difficulty of hazards.  It not only isn't necessary to do so,  but it can be quite confusing.  Me, I stick with penal to refer to placement.  "Difficult" works fine for a, well, difficult hazard.

Ciao

Ciao

[Brett_Morrissy]

A golf hole lined one entire side the full length by gorse, that is not wide would be considered a penal hazard right?

I think some of mackenzies holes where there are no even lies go a long way to making a hole always play difficult, the domed nature of the Pasatiempo 16's fairway is what I have in mind, although the green and bunker complex is diabolical.

[Mac Plumart]

16 at Askernish.

I don't believe there are any fairway or greenside bunkers.  But the raised mound before the green (or part of the green) is the hazard.  I believe this fits the criteria.


13 at Crail Balcomie fits if you include par 3's.


6 at Crystal Downs?  Are those bunker penal?  I don't think so.  You?


Pete Dye Golf Club of WV...hole 17.  Green is the defense.  Great hole!!


Canterbury 16?  Great hole.  Distance and eleveation changes are the main hazards.  There is some green side bunkering.  Penal?


Yeaman's Hall 1?  I don't recall any penal hazards, just a severe green.  

Thoughts?

[Garland Bayley]

All hazards make the next shot a more difficult one, but that does not make the hazard a 'penal hazard'.

There are penal hazards and strategic hazards.  Penal refers not to the degree which the hazard penalizes the golfer but to its intent. 

I think that's where people on this board get confused, and where I think you and several others on this thread are confused. ...

And several of us think the one of you is confused. But then again, you probably have figured that out by now.

[David_Elvins]

Just to clarify, a penal hazard is one that is difficult to get out of. 

A penal hazard is just as likely to be found on a strategic golf hole as a penal golf hole.

Apologies for the confusion.

[Mark Pearce]

I'm with Sean.  We need consistency in the way we use the word penal and it only makes sense if it's used to describe intent.

Mac, there is a bunker right of the green on 13 at Balcomie.  It isn't strategic (I don't think it plays any role in how you go about playing the hole) but nor is it terribly punishing  (given the difficulty of getting close to a right sided pin if you miss right it's probably no harder than any other close right sided miss) but, the way most people are responding to this thread, it probably disqualifies the hole. A shame, since it is a great example of a hole where you don't consider the hazards in your play of he hole.

[Sean_A]

Addington's par 5 16th is a cracker. 

I don't know if it is great, but I dig Sligo's 4th.


Strandhill's 5th is an outstanding par 5.  There is a bunker short of the green which isn't penal or difficult to recover from. 


Has anybody mentioned Rye's 4th?


Finally, Formby's 8th is outstanding.



Ciao

[Kyle Harris]

For me, the fundamental problem, and therefore hazard, to overcome in golf is distance. Golfers spend shots to overcome distance and those that can spend those shots more efficiently are best.

When I refer to distance as "penal" that indicates that the most pressing issue on the hole is distance. Think of a hole that is just outside the range of two or three shots.

With the example of the tenth at Riviera, the combination of hazards and the lack of distance makes that distance not penal.

In contrast, take the 15th at Bethpage Black, where none of the specific bunkers are so penal except for the context that the hole lay just outside the comfortable range of two shots for most golfers. Therefore, the distance can be considered the penal hazard.

[Don Hyslop]

The second hole at Highland Links in Cape Breton has to qualify for this list/ The 445 yd par 4, named Tam O Shanter because the shape of the green resembles one is without a bunker and relies on topography as its major defense. It is simply a world class beautiful hole.
http://www.golfclubatlas.com/courses-by-country/canada/cape-breton-highlands-links-canada-2/