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Ken Moum

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Shack's quote this morning...
« on: October 06, 2012, 08:41:16 AM »
"Maybe we Americans should come look at St. Andrews considering the crap we are building today." CURTIS STRANGE

Anyone here disagree?

I thought not.

K
Over time, the guy in the ideal position derives an advantage, and delivering him further  advantage is not worth making the rest of the players suffer at the expense of fun, variety, and ultimately cost -- Jeff Warne, 12-08-2010

Niall C

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Re: Shack's quote this morning...
« Reply #1 on: October 06, 2012, 09:08:06 AM »
Ken

You clearly agree with this statement and an awful lot of architects trot out similar statements about TOC and have been ever since the golden age. I wonder sometimes if they just say it to bolster their credibility. Personally I'm not sure what lessons there are to be learned from studying the course more than many others. Interested to hear your thoughts on what can be learned.

Niall

Joel_Stewart

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Re: Shack's quote this morning...
« Reply #2 on: October 06, 2012, 10:15:49 AM »
Who is Curtis Strange to be touting Scottish golf and hammering American golf course architecture?  He never won the British Open and I've never seen him discuss architecture as a TV announcer.   I guess I should Google him to see if he's following in the footsteps of every other major winner and trying to get into golf architecture?

The problem with American architects are like members of congress.  There is a record low approval rate and yet nobody is willing to come forward and say "yep I'm doing a crappy job".  They just keep doing the same thing?

Jim Colton

Re: Shack's quote this morning...
« Reply #3 on: October 06, 2012, 10:38:36 AM »
Aren't most of the very few courses getting built today actually very, very good?

Curtis's name is on a public course called Odyssey here in Chicago. I don't recall many cues to the Old Course other than it was 18 holes.

Dónal Ó Ceallaigh

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Re: Shack's quote this morning...
« Reply #4 on: October 06, 2012, 10:53:23 AM »
Just to be clear, is this the same Curtis Strange that was eligible, yet didn't play in the 1984 (St. Andrews  :o  :o  :o), 1985, 1987, 1993, 1994 Open Championships because of his dislike for bad weather?

mike_malone

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Shack's quote this morning...
« Reply #5 on: October 06, 2012, 11:12:29 AM »
Since TOC defines great golf nothing can be better
AKA Mayday

Ivan Morris

Re: Shack's quote this morning...
« Reply #6 on: October 06, 2012, 11:18:24 AM »
Curtis Strange was letting off steam! The Old Course is a very interesting and enjoyable golf course but what's so earth-shattering about holes 8, 9 and 10, I'd like to know?  Perhaps, those holes teach budding architects that all they need to know about making a golf hole is find a piece of flat ground, mark a spot from where to tee off and stick a flag in a hole in the ground anything from 200 to 350-yards away. If I am missing something, I guess I'll have to play The Old Course more than three times to begin appreciating it more? The town, its other (great) courses, as well as 'tradition,' all combine to make St. Andrew's unique. It's the history and the ambiance more than anything else that makes it so special. The familiarity, the presence of the R&A - the ruling body of golf, and knowing you are walking in the footsteps of legends, all make St. Andrew's what it is far more than any of its architectural tricks of nature. If I were a young architect I would spend as much of my time on The New Course, then I'd go to Crail, Panmure, Carnoustie, Muirfield, Monifeith, Montrose, Gullane, Dunbar to name a few. Every golf course is unique and has something individual to offer. American golf architecture has nothing to be ashamed of - especially the older stuff. Merion and Pine Valley are as good as you'll get anywhere, not to mention Shinnecock and several others.      

astavrides

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Shack's quote this morning...
« Reply #7 on: October 06, 2012, 11:26:34 AM »
I guess I should Google him to see if he's following in the footsteps of every other major winner and trying to get into golf architecture?



6 courses according to the link below.  i've never played any of them.
http://www.worldgolf.com/golf-architects/curtis-strange.html

Bill_McBride

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Re: Shack's quote this morning...
« Reply #8 on: October 06, 2012, 11:28:55 AM »
Actually I'd like to send our young superintendent to St Andrews - or anywhere in the UK - to see what FRICKING FAST AND FIRM LOOKS LIKE!

Sorry for the rant.  I am so sick and tired of playing a course that was designed to be played with run up shots and fast and firm that it is sickening to see the soggy approaches and gummy fairways from all the water that's poured on the course.

I think every golfer should experience the Old Course and learn or remember how golf should be played.

« Last Edit: October 06, 2012, 11:57:45 AM by Bill_McBride »

Ivan Morris

Re: Shack's quote this morning...
« Reply #9 on: October 06, 2012, 11:47:39 AM »
Proposing the Motion (Bill McBride): I think every golfer should experience the Old Course and learn or remember how golf should be played.
Seconding the Motion (Ivan Morris): Och aye!! Crail, The New and a few others would 'do' just as good.   

Adam Clayman

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Re: Shack's quote this morning...
« Reply #10 on: October 06, 2012, 11:51:52 AM »
Does anyone know when Strange said this?

Niall, I've never been, but the lessons gleamed are at the core level, aren't they?. Freedom, opportunities for heroism through options and strategy, firmness, windage, recovery etc.
"It's unbelievable how much you don't know about the game you've been playing your whole life." - Mickey Mantle

David_Tepper

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Shack's quote this morning...
« Reply #11 on: October 06, 2012, 11:54:38 AM »
"Just to be clear, is this the same Curtis Strange that was eligible, yet didn't play in the 1984 (St. Andrews  Shocked  Shocked  Shocked), 1985, 1987, 1993, 1994 Open Championships because of his dislike for bad weather?"

Donal -

Yes, you are correct. The irony of Strange's comment is pretty funny considering that, in his prime, he never showed the least bit of enthusiasm for either links golf or playing in the British Open.

That being said, I believe he does hold the competitive course record (62) at TOC. Maybe he has gotten wiser as he has gotten older.

DT

Tommy Williamsen

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Re: Shack's quote this morning...
« Reply #12 on: October 06, 2012, 01:06:25 PM »
Lest we get carried away with Strange's strange comments i'd like to suggest that while there are some new courses that aren't very good  that there a many many newer courses that are wonderful.  I'd like to know what courses he was referring to.
Where there is no love, put love; there you will find love.
St. John of the Cross

"Deep within your soul-space is a magnificent cathedral where you are sweet beyond telling." Rumi

Sven Nilsen

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Re: Shack's quote this morning...
« Reply #13 on: October 06, 2012, 01:46:12 PM »
Lest we get carried away with Strange's strange comments i'd like to suggest that while there are some new courses that aren't very good  that there a many many newer courses that are wonderful.  I'd like to know what courses he was referring to.

Maybe his own, and he was just talking to himself.
"As much as we have learned about the history of golf architecture in the last ten plus years, I'm convinced we have only scratched the surface."  A GCA Poster

"There's the golf hole; play it any way you please." Donald Ross

Carl Rogers

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Shack's quote this morning...
« Reply #14 on: October 06, 2012, 08:31:10 PM »
In the Tidewater - Williamsburg Area of Virginia, Curtis has 'consulted' on several courses along with Ault-Clark.  The ones I know about are the remodel of the Portsmouth Muni called Bide-a-Wee, the Woods Course at Kingsmill and Cypress Creek in Smithfied,VA.  There is not much to compare to the TOC, but they are reasonable and OK courses.

There might be other courses I am not aware of.
« Last Edit: October 06, 2012, 08:33:47 PM by Carl Rogers »
I decline to accept the end of man. ... William Faulkner

Marty Bonnar

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Shack's quote this morning...
« Reply #15 on: October 06, 2012, 09:00:54 PM »
Currently much enjoying the coverage of the Dunhill, I'm gonna cut Curtis a little slack. What doesn't get mentioned is the major contributor to the kind of game he's talking about (I assume).


SAND.


Boy, does it make SUCH a difference.

F.
The White River runs dark through the heart of the Town,
Washed the people coal-black from the hole in the ground.

Niall C

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Shack's quote this morning...
« Reply #16 on: October 07, 2012, 06:44:16 AM »
Does anyone know when Strange said this?

Niall, I've never been, but the lessons gleamed are at the core level, aren't they?. Freedom, opportunities for heroism through options and strategy, firmness, windage, recovery etc.

Adam,

That's a nice way of putting it, core level. That being the case, what distinguishes TOC from any number of other links ? I appreciate, you haven't played TOC but hopefully one of the practising architects might chip in with some specifics.

Niall

Matt Day

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Re: Shack's quote this morning...
« Reply #17 on: October 07, 2012, 08:12:53 AM »
He played St Andrews in the old nations team event, think he shot 62 in 1986 or 1987.