[Patrick_Mucci]

As Brandon Grace is teeing off on the 352 yard 9th at TOC, "there's some bunkers in the middle of the fairway that have to be avoided," as Grace flies them by what looks like 60-80 yards and drives the green.

Then the announcer says, "they're just not showing any respect for the old lady". Referring to the golf course.

So when will the R&A and the USGA do something about hi-tech obsoleting virtually every golf course on the planet ?

Was Gary Player correct when he predicted that 400 yard drives are on the horizon?

[Jud_T]

On the horizon?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=db2iCtkFADw

[Paul OConnor]

Pat,
We are already there.  There were 65 drives this year on the PGA tour of 400 yards or longer.  Most at the ridiculous WGC Brigestone event, or the Hyundai Tournament of Champios.

Y-T-D statistics through: Ryder Cup Sep 30, 2012  


                  Player                      Distance             Tournament

1   Gary Woodland     450   Hyundai T of C   
T2   Bubba Watson     442   WGC-Bridgestone   
T2   Keegan Bradley   442   WGC-Bridgestone   
4   Louis Oosthuizen     430   WGC-Bridgestone   
5   Kyle Stanley     429   WGC-Bridgestone   
T6   Bubba Watson     427   Hyundai T of C   
T6   Branden Grace   427   WGC-Bridgestone   
8   Joost Luiten     425   WGC-Bridgestone   
T9   Paul Lawrie      422   WGC-Bridgestone   
T9   John Senden     422   WGC-Bridgestone   
T9   Bubba Watson     422   WGC-Bridgestone   
T12   Michael Bradley     421   Hyundai T of C   
T12   Keegan Bradley   421   Hyundai T of C   
T12   Keegan Bradley   421   WGC-Bridgestone   
T15   Martin Laird     420   Hyundai T of C   
T15   Nicolas Colsaerts     420   WGC-Bridgestone   
17   Gary Woodland     418   Hyundai T of C   
T18   Michael Bradley     417   Hyundai T of C   
18   Gary Woodland     417   Hyundai T of C   
T20   Sean O'Hair                      415   Hyundai T of C   
T20   Jhonattan Vegas   415   Hyundai T of C   
T20   Alvaro Quiros     415   WGC-Bridgestone   
T20   Rickie Fowler     415   WGC-Bridgestone   
24   Johnson Wagner     414   Hyundai T of C   
25   Gary Woodland     413   Hyundai T of C   
T26   Steve Stricker     411   Hyundai T of C   
T26   Martin Laird     411   Hyundai T of C   
T26   Bubba Watson     411   WGC-Bridgestone   
29   Joost Luiten     410   WGC-Bridgestone   
T30   Aaron Baddeley     409   Hyundai T of C   
T30   Webb Simpson     409   Hyundai T of C   
T30   Rory McIlroy     409   WGC-Bridgestone   
T33   Michael Bradley     408   Hyundai T of C   
T33   Steve Stricker     408   Hyundai T of C   
T33   Harrison Frazar     408   Hyundai T of C   
T33   Aaron Baddeley     408   Hyundai T of C   
T33   Rory Sabbatini   408   Hyundai T of C   
33   Gary Woodland     408   Hyundai T of C   
T33   Nick Watney     408   WGC-Bridgestone   
T40   Aaron Baddeley     407   Hyundai T of C   
T40   Adam Scott     407   WGC-Bridgestone   
T40   Martin Laird     407   WGC-Bridgestone   
T40   Dustin Johnson   407   WGC-Bridgestone   
T44   Steve Stricker     406   Hyundai T of C   
T44   Sean O'Hair                      406   Hyundai T of C   
T44   Charl Schwartzel   406   WGC-Bridgestone   
47   Scott Piercy     405   WGC-Bridgestone   
T48   Kevin Na                        404   Hyundai T of C   
T48   Bubba Watson     404   Hyundai T of C   
T48   Keegan Bradley   404   Hyundai T of C   
T48   Kevin Kisner                      404   Wyndham Champ.   
T52   Aaron Baddeley     403   Hyundai T of C   
T52   Nick Watney     403   Hyundai T of C   
T52   Keegan Bradley   403   Hyundai T of C   
55   Scott Piercy     402   Hyundai T of C   
T55   Martin Laird     402   Hyundai T of C   
T55   Keegan Bradley   402   Hyundai T of C   
T55   Peter Hanson     402   WGC-Bridgestone   
T55   Gonzalo Fdez-Castano   402   WGC-Bridgestone   
T60   Jhonattan Vegas   401   Hyundai T of C   
T60   Nick Watney     401   Hyundai T of C   
T60   Scott Stallings     401   Hyundai T of C   
T60   Chris Kirk                        401   Hyundai T of C   
T60   Retief Goosen   401   WGC-Cadillac   
T65   Bill Haas                        400   Hyundai T of C   
65   Johnson Wagner     400   Hyundai T of C   
T65   Scott Stallings     400   Hyundai T of C   
 

[Terry Lavin]

That's a goofy list. I guess the holes used for measuring at Bridgestone and Hyundai were brick hard and/or downwind.

[Paul OConnor]

That's a goofy list. I guess the holes used for measuring at Bridgestone and Hyundai were brick hard and/or downwind.

As they say Terry, "I'm not making this shit up."

http://www.pgatour.com/r/stats/info/xm.html?159

[Tim Gavrich]

The fact that the vast, vast majority of those drives come from two tournaments that created more or less ideal conditions for drives flying far and bounding farther should make it plain that we need to take this list with a healthy grain of salt. Firestone was very warm and pretty dry, with fairways that, by all accounts, run like The Other Half's putting greens.

I thought we liked Firm and Fast? This is what the pros do on Firm and Fast and, in the case of these two courses, downhill.

I've hit a 400-plus yard drive before on a hole similar to that the pros encounter at the Plantation Course and Firestone. So what?

[Niall C]

All

Please bear in mind that they have been driving the 9th at TOC since Bobby Jones was in his pomp.

Niall

[David Whitmer]

The golf ball is going ridiculous distances these days when great players hit it, but I kind of agree with Tim...so what?

St. Andrews and links golf in general is a different sort of animal from American, inland, or parkland-type courses. On links courses, the golf course is usually pretty defenseless in front of those guys with no wind (the last three winning scores at St. Andrews were -16, -14, and -19). If strong wind comes up, the golf course grows teeth and length is not nearly as big a factor (winning score at St. Andrews in 1995 when it was very windy was -6).

Didn't Jack drive it over the 18th green at TOC in 1970?

[Mark Bourgeois]

Patrick, why must you continue to confuse everyone by syncretizing flog and golf?

[Ben Sims]

I'm reminded of the relativiely short 3rd at Augusta National.  The divot patterns alone told me all I needed to know about the dreaded "hi-tech obsoletion" of every golf course.  That hole is a good lesson in how to mitigate technology.  Give these guys a reason to not hit driver, and they won't. 

Mark is doing a good job of banging away at a great talking point.  More and more, what the tour pros do to a golf course has zero bearing on my thoughts about a golf hole.

[Doug Sobieski]

On the horizon?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=db2iCtkFADw

When I clicked the link I was guessing that it was going to be the Landon/Jamie video. A great example of the change in the game.

Landon Colling is likely the longest hitter pound for pound in the world among adults (I'm sure there's some 60 pound 8 year old that hits it 170, but that's not worth the consideration). He's somewhat of an acquaintance of mine. Did his residency here in Columbus at OSU. He's 5'9" and likely 150 at most, and has made it to the semis of the ReMax. Pound for pound I've always been happy with how far I can move it, but he is a different league from pretty much anyone. His ball speed with a 6 iron is higher than my driver. Incredible stuff. He's an amazing all-around athlete.

Topping out at 150 lbs and capable of hitting it 400 is pretty cool.

[David_Tepper]

"Didn't Jack drive it over the 18th green at TOC in 1970?"

David Whitmer -

Yes, indeed he did, with a 3-wood!

DT

[Patrick_Mucci]

I'm reminded of the relativiely short 3rd at Augusta National.  The divot patterns alone told me all I needed to know about the dreaded "hi-tech obsoletion" of every golf course.  That hole is a good lesson in how to mitigate technology.  Give these guys a reason to not hit driver, and they won't.  

And what then happens to every other golfer when you introduce extraordinary defensive measures ?

Mark is doing a good job of banging away at a great talking point.  More and more, what the tour pros do to a golf course has zero bearing on my thoughts about a golf hole.

The issue or problem isn't confined to PGA tour pros, young guys, amateurs, are hitting the ball incredible distances, and I'm not talking about scratch handicappers

[DMoriarty]

Perhaps all of you who doubt the applicability of the list ought to take a closer look. The list doesn't stop at 400 yards . . .  The 2012 list shows, so far, 1000 drives of 356 yards or better.    Dry conditions?   Really?

Unfortunately, the application is screwed up right now, so we cannot go back in time to see the complete numbers pre 2002, Rather we only get the ToC from January for these years.

But the glitch in the system does allow us to easily take a look at the numbers for just Kapalua over time, though. Here is a Kapalua comparison of 2000 (1999 season) to 2011, longest drive, 20th longest drive, and 50th longest drive.

       2000 2011  +/-
1st    305  397   +92 yards
20th  280  373   +93 yards
50th  268  354   +86 yards

Crazy anomaly?  Maybe.  2011 was a short year for Kapalua.   Using 2010 the gap only gets bigger!

       2000 2010  +/-
1st    305  424   +124 yards
20th  280  395   +115 yards
50th  268  387   +121 yards


______________________________________

I just went  back and looked a few posts of mine based on the pgatour lists w/o the glitch.   The 2012 list notes 1000 drives of at least 356 yards.  The 1992 list notes one (1) drive of over 350 yards.

[Matthew Mollica]

I'm reminded of the relativiely short 3rd at Augusta National.  The divot patterns alone told me all I needed to know about the dreaded "hi-tech obsoletion" of every golf course.  That hole is a good lesson in how to mitigate technology.  Give these guys a reason to not hit driver, and they won't.  

And what then happens to every other golfer when you introduce extraordinary defensive measures ?

Patrick, are you suggesting the 3rd green at ANGC is an extraordinary defensive measure?

MM

[Mark Bourgeois]

I'm reminded of the relativiely short 3rd at Augusta National.  The divot patterns alone told me all I needed to know about the dreaded "hi-tech obsoletion" of every golf course.  That hole is a good lesson in how to mitigate technology.  Give these guys a reason to not hit driver, and they won't.  

And what then happens to every other golfer when you introduce extraordinary defensive measures ?

Mark is doing a good job of banging away at a great talking point.  More and more, what the tour pros do to a golf course has zero bearing on my thoughts about a golf hole.

The issue or problem isn't confined to PGA tour pros, young guys, amateurs, are hitting the ball incredible distances, and I'm not talking about scratch handicappers

Patrick, so what?

Floggers cause far, far more damage to courses than do golfers.

[Tom_Doak]

"Didn't Jack drive it over the 18th green at TOC in 1970?"

David Whitmer -

Yes, indeed he did, with a 3-wood!

DT

Yes, but that was with the small 1.62-in ball, which went about 30 yards longer than the 1.68-in ball at that time.

The transition that made the small ball illegal (over 15 years) is a perfect model for what could happen with a new spec ball today ... except that neither of the governing bodies shows any real interest in rolling it back.

[Jon Wiggett]

St. Andrews and links golf in general is a different sort of animal from American, inland, or parkland-type courses. On links courses, the golf course is usually pretty defenseless in front of those guys with no wind (the last three winning scores at St. Andrews were -16, -14, and -19). If strong wind comes up, the golf course grows teeth and length is not nearly as big a factor (winning score at St. Andrews in 1995 when it was very windy was -6).

Didn't Jack drive it over the 18th green at TOC in 1970?

David,

any course is defenceless in calm conditions these days unless it has really fast sloping greens. Length is not a defence against the top pros. The US Open is trying to con people by lowering the par which most people seem to buy and maybe it would be better if every hole was classed as a par 4 regardless of if it is 100 yards or 600 yards so making par irrelevant.

Tom,

yes the 1.62 did go further but it also flew lower making the running game more relevant. Had it been adopted instead of the 1.68 it might have lessened the effect of bomb and gouge golf

Jon

[Mark Chaplin]

If the average handicap golfer learnt to chip and putt handicaps would plummet, until then we are closer to the green but it makes little difference to our scoring.

At the top end of the game things will change when The Masters tell the manufacturers to prepare an event ball to Masters spec. The manufacturers wouldn't dream of withdrawing their players from the event and they cannot sue as its the same for all. Once ANGC have some control the USGA and R&A can follow.

[Adam Clayman]

Patrick, For some reason I'm under the impression that you are a lawyer. If you are, could you elaborate on the fears the governing bodies have regarding being sued?

Maybe the Judge can shed more light on his comment, too?

To this layman, it seems lke a silly fear, (if not an excuse) since they are the ruling bodies. Ruling bodies rule. So if they pass a rule on I&B why can the mannies sue?

[Rick Shefchik]

As Brandon Grace is teeing off on the 352 yard 9th at TOC, "there's some bunkers in the middle of the fairway that have to be avoided," as Grace flies them by what looks like 60-80 yards and drives the green.

Then the announcer says, "they're just not showing any respect for the old lady". Referring to the golf course.

So when will the R&A and the USGA do something about hi-tech obsoleting virtually every golf course on the planet ?

None of them are obsolete for me or the guys I play with.

I would not object if the USGA and R&A rolled back the ball or made some other equipment restrictions, but today's golf courses remain very challenging for the vast majority of players.

[Patrick_Mucci]

Adam,

I'm not a lawyer, but I did stay in a Holday Inn Express last night.

Mark Chaplin has repeated my premise, namely that ANGC crafts a competition ball for The Masters that gets adopted as a competition ball  by the USGA, and in turn by regional and state golf associations and then by local clubs.

I suspect that hi-tech will continue to produce increased distance, whether it be vis a vis the shafts or the paint on the ball in an effort to reduce drag/resistance.

Off the top of my head I don't recall the yardage on # 9 and # 18 but David's stats seem to present evidence that Gary Player may be correct

[Mark Bourgeois]

Adam,

I'm not Patrick, a lawyer or frequenter of HI Expresses, but if I were the USGA I'd take that war chest and blow it on a really big party. Maybe on youth golf.

Then I'd roll back the ball, welcome the lawsuits, go bk, declare victory and then keep on doing what we'd been doing. Running championships, protecting and promoting the game, &c &c.

People forget that a fine deterrent (war chest) can make a superb target for our enemies.

Yours in strategery,

[Matthew Essig]

"Didn't Jack drive it over the 18th green at TOC in 1970?"

David Whitmer -

Yes, indeed he did, with a 3-wood!

DT

But it seems every pro has been either close or on the 18th in the Alfred Dunhill...

[Patrick_Mucci]

I'm reminded of the relativiely short 3rd at Augusta National.  The divot patterns alone told me all I needed to know about the dreaded "hi-tech obsoletion" of every golf course.  That hole is a good lesson in how to mitigate technology.  Give these guys a reason to not hit driver, and they won't.  

And what then happens to every other golfer when you introduce extraordinary defensive measures ?

Patrick, are you suggesting the 3rd green at ANGC is an extraordinary defensive measure?

Yes,  and the defenses aren't confined to the green

MM

[Tags:]

Tags:

[Tags:]

Tags:

Call to undefined function theme_linktree()