I don't get the Ryder Cup

[mike_beene]

The pick the major or Ryder Cup is just a way of trying to make my point.Yes,the point is it is overhyped and seems so focused on winning.To me Seve took this the wrong direction and to be fair the Stockton ,not sure his fault, war team really got this out of hand.This getting the fans riled up is not what Samuel Ryder probably had in mind,is it? Come to think of it,Montgomery may be the ultimate victim of this fan craziness with a claim from Sergio.I really like the Presidents Cup.There seems less anger about the whole thing.

[noonan]

Mickelson gets it - the thumbs up to Rose making the putt - it is about sport and sportsmanship

The media and the hype sucks

[Jud_T]

So to focus on winning is OK in a major but not in a team event where it manifests itself more outwardly?

[Phil McDade]

Part of this, I think, is the way that Europeans think about sports vs. the way many in America do. Soccer (football ) fans in England talk about their last World Cup victory like it was yesterday, even though it happened more than 45 years ago. Langer is revered -- as a sporting figure, not just a golfer -- in Germany the way very few American athletes have been. Ben Sims' comment in a thread that vast swaths of the American South in the fall care little about anything else other than college football -- that would never be replicated in a country like Scotland or Spain during an event the size and importance of the Ryder Cup.

So European fans -- and by extension Euro's golfers -- come to the Ryder Cup with all of that knowledge and history in their golf bags, and their golfing personas. They know how over-matched GBI was pre-1979. They know recent European success in the RC (since 1983-5) has turned this into one of the largest sporting spectacles of any kind, because it's made it an incredibly competitive event (say what you will about Euros success and America's lack of it -- can you think of another sporting event that is consistently this compelling time after time?). Euro always seems to come to the matches with a little bit of an extra edge -- this year it was the memory of Seve, brought up-front and center by his playing partner of so many years who served as captain. Years previously it was Clarke's inspired play in the face of his wife's death, or the sense that too many over here didn't truly respect the quality and depth of talent that Euro had.

In short, I still think the Ryder Cup means more to the Euros than the Americans, although I think that tide is turning. Somewhere there is someone(s) on the American side who's sick of losing this thing, and dedicates the next two years to winning it, moreso than winning a major or the FedEx trophy.

[BHoover]

Part of this, I think, is the way that Europeans think about sports vs. the way many in America do. Soccer (football ) fans in England talk about their last World Cup victory like it was yesterday, even though it happened more than 45 years ago.

To be fair, some of us in the USA are living in the past when it comes to sports, not necessarily by choice. Being from Cleveland, the years 1948 and 1964 are very meaningful. 1948 is the last time that the Indians won a World Series (they have lost three times since, including a meltdown in 1997). 1964 is the last year that the Browns won an NFL championship, and we are one of four teams to never make a Super Bowl. For the record, I was born 13 years after the last time Cleveland experienced a championship. The very thought of ever seeing a winner is so foreign to me that I can imagine how I would react if I ever do see it...at the moment, that's not going to be a problem for me because all my teams are awful.

[Jud_T]

David,

I agree.  If anything I think it's the fact that it means so much that consistently impacts guys like Tiger's play.  They haven't had team pressure since college and this is about a million times larger.

[Phil McDade]

David,

I agree.  If anything I think it's the fact that it means so much that consistently impacts guys like Tiger's play.  They haven't had team pressure since college and this is about a million times larger.

Jud:

If you don't think Tiger cares more about the Masters, US Open, British Open and PGA than the Ryder Cup -- and his larger individual record in the sport -- than you've been watching different golf than me the past several years. He's won more majors than he has RCup victories, which is almost impossible to achieve.

[Phil McDade]

David,

I agree.  If anything I think it's the fact that it means so much that consistently impacts guys like Tiger's play.  They haven't had team pressure since college and this is about a million times larger.

Jud:

If you don't think Tiger cares more about the Masters, US Open, British Open and PGA than the Ryder Cup -- and his larger individual record in the sport -- than you've been watching different golf than me the past several years. He's won more majors than he has RCup victories, which is almost impossible to achieve.

Phil

I'll go ahead and concede that point to you. But he is 1 of 12. If we are to believe what the Americans said throughout the entire week, an in particular after the matches, they told a different story.

David:

I tend not to listen to what people say, generally. I watch what they do. And with rare exceptions, the U.S. has gone into the last 14 RCups with as much, and in most cases more, pure golfing talent (as measured by majors won, tour tournaments won) than Euro. And for most of the RCups from 1997 on, they've had the best player on the planet --maybe ever -- on their team.

Its lost 10 of those 14 matches. That's a record that speaks to motivation.

[Jud_T]

So if the U.S. wins the next 3 they miraculously got motivated?

[Phil McDade]

David:

In Tiger's world (IMHO), majors are different than Ryder Cups. It's an apples-oranges argument.

[Mike Wagner]

So to focus on winning is OK in a major but not in a team event where it manifests itself more outwardly?

To this question, I answer "yes."  I can't even stand the now standard fist pump.  Act like you've been there - or at least not like it's the first time you've made a 10 footer.

You ask this as if the players have no choice but to act the way they do.

[Jud_T]

Mike,

I sound like a broken record.  The 13th man, THE CROWD, was what everyone was playing for all week.  Both the U.S.'s performance the first 2 days, and Europe's Sunday performance had a lot to do with the crowd's participation or lack thereof.  If you don't like it I suggest you watch this instead next time:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9wK4xDlpWJA

[mike_beene]

I can't put a finger on this,but is a very competitive Jack Nicklaus conceding the putt to Tony Jacklin what the Ryder Cup should be?Still they competed hard and I understand Snead was mad.I can't see Nicklaus going out of his way to fist pump and rile a crowd.Maybe Niclaus be Watson at Turnberry is the attitude and respect golfers should have for each other and the game.Compete hard,remember it is a game and don't egg on the drunken idiots from both sides.Golf is a game that transcends borders.Why create this artificial marketing opportunity.Next thing you know the PGA of America will have people standing in patches of sand they claim are bunkers and cost someone a major when they ground their club by the potato chip packs.

[Mike Wagner]

Mike,

I sound like a broken record.  The 13th man, THE CROWD, was what everyone was playing for all week.  Both the U.S.'s performance the first 2 days, and Europe's Sunday performance had a lot to do with the crowd's participation or lack thereof.  If you don't like it I suggest you watch this instead next time:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9wK4xDlpWJA

Jud,

I haven't watched the Ryder Cup for years.  Yeah, I see the forced highlights for about 15 seconds - just doesn't do it for me.  I'll stick with my first answer - especially when put in the "crowd" terms.  I don't think it's ok to act like the lowest common denominator - the chest beating, drunk fan that screams at everything in sight.  If you're cool with the players and crowds acting like idiots for a few days, that's all good with me.  All I said is that I'm not down with it.

 

[Mark Pearce]

Honestly, I don't understand this thread at all.  All week, colleaguse who don't follow golf at all have been talking about the excitement, the skill and the competitive spirit at Medinah.  And also the sportsmanship shown by the competitors.  If you don't get a thrill from the way Mickelson so obviously enjoyed the competition down the stretch, if you aren't filled with admiration for the skill of Rose and the way in which Mickelson responded to it, if you can't appreciate Colsaerts play on Friday afternoon or Poulter's astyonishing finish under such enormous pressure on Saturday then I simply don't see how you can get any sport.

If you don't get the Ryder Cup you don't get sport.

[mike_beene]

Mark,depends on the definition of sport.I don't get spectators that live and die with their team and travel to games.I could really care less if Dallas beats New York,etc and long ago let season tickets go to Cowboys and Rangers.I would rather be on the golf course.I love the process of sport not the staging.Other than seeing a 200 meter world record at the Atlanta Olympics and enjoying the drama of a golf major,watching others compete just doesn't interest me.i don't know why but I don't understand a fan really caring whether their team wins.When I am playing I absolutely want to win. So I still don't get the Ryder Cup.

[Tiger_Bernhardt]

SL gave the good answer. Part of that may be that Illinois sucks so bad this year, he has lots of time on his hands. I mean La Tech wiped the earth with them in Illinois.  I personally do not like the Ryder hype nor the courses used in the general discussion. However I love match play golf when it really matters to the players. That is say compared the Arizona tour event. So watching big time match play golf is so pure and beautiful to me I will watch and tolerate the tour types and hype.