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corey miller

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Re: Attracting Younger Members
« Reply #125 on: October 10, 2012, 07:54:24 PM »


I think the program at Sinclair's club sounds good.  Any guess Sinclair as to what percentage actually join?  it would also be incumbent on the club to have the one year dues be enough that folks would not "join" on a lark.

Ross Harmon

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Attracting Younger Members
« Reply #126 on: October 10, 2012, 08:05:13 PM »
I recently had occasion to play with a guy who was a member at a well known club that has been discussed on this board. He just got out after 48 years knowing that on his 50th anniversary his dues would be dropped to 50% going forward as written in the the by-laws and meant to be a thank you to anyone that had supported the club in that fashion. He told me that he was disgusted with the sorts of enticements that were being dangled to new members and thought that it diluted the value of membership. Additionally he was unhappy with the level of capital improvements being made that were not directly related to the golf course. He advised that he thought newer members should be required to have more skin in the game so as not to get in only to get out a short time later. He mentioned what the initiation was in 2005 compared to now which was certainly a drastic reduction. Not easy to please everyone.

How does the initiation fee today compare to 48 years ago? Sounds like this guy had alot of hangups with the club, which is unfortunate after that long, but you're right - not easy to please everyone. 

Dan Herrmann

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Attracting Younger Members
« Reply #127 on: October 10, 2012, 08:11:10 PM »
The economy changes all.  Initial fees are like the market in that they vary over time based on demand and market conditions

Dan Byrnes

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Attracting Younger Members
« Reply #128 on: October 10, 2012, 09:34:45 PM »
I recently had occasion to play with a guy who was a member at a well known club that has been discussed on this board. He just got out after 48 years knowing that on his 50th anniversary his dues would be dropped to 50% going forward as written in the the by-laws and meant to be a thank you to anyone that had supported the club in that fashion. He told me that he was disgusted with the sorts of enticements that were being dangled to new members and thought that it diluted the value of membership. Additionally he was unhappy with the level of capital improvements being made that were not directly related to the golf course. He advised that he thought newer members should be required to have more skin in the game so as not to get in only to get out a short time later. He mentioned what the initiation was in 2005 compared to now which was certainly a drastic reduction. Not easy to please everyone.




This gentleman is correct, that is the way to do it and some clubs still do.  The problem is most clubs can't not get that to work so they need to develope a different plan or fold.

Dan

Mike Sweeney

Re: Attracting Younger Members
« Reply #129 on: October 10, 2012, 09:53:07 PM »
It's a matter of proper selection. You have to find the right younger members, the guys who won't go to every little league or lacrosse game,

Wow.

I really have to say that I don't regret any of that. I am just back from a college athletic recruiting trip with my older son at the United States Naval Academy and George Washington University, and it was one of the great experiences of MY LIFE. Missing a member guest or two was an easy price to pay.

Please feel free to de-select me.

Carl Nichols

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Attracting Younger Members
« Reply #130 on: October 11, 2012, 07:51:13 AM »
It's a matter of proper selection. You have to find the right younger members, the guys who won't go to every little league or lacrosse game, the guys who don't care if their wives don't get to meet everybody else's wives every weekend at the pool. The young guys who don't come up with wimpy excuses and then don't play in the member-guest. The young guys who love meeting and playing with as many other members as possible. In other words, guys who will never be told to "grow a pair".

Do you still talk to your ex-wives and kids?

PCCraig

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Attracting Younger Members
« Reply #131 on: October 11, 2012, 08:23:12 AM »
Pat,

Can I ask a dumb question?  Specifically, why is T&CC specifically looking for younger members?

Is it because they are anticipating many 70+ members leaving soon?  Is it to help prop up the F&B/Pool operation or is it to increase the quality of play on the course? or maybe some other reason.

the reason i ask is that this may help dictate the direction y'all take.



Mark,

I think it mostly boils down to only having 21 members under 35 out of 325 golfing members. I don't know the average age but I'm guessing its around 55. T&C is a great neighborhood club which is only 10min from either downtown. However they have had a hard time recruiting younger members to join. As you know, it's a pretty traditional place, and I think they were a little behind the game in tailoring the club to younger tastes as discussed above. But with the membership age creeping up, the club has found it's well of younger new members drying up. Does that help?

definitely makes sense.   i didnt realize just how old the membership was.

I wonder how much of the issue comes down to location.    From what I have seen, younger professionals and families are more likely to be settling on the minneapolis side, rather the st. paul side.    I know if it was 10-15 minutes closer for me, I would definitely consider joining.


Mark,

As Dan noted in a later post, T&C is just about in the middle of town and is closer to most of Minneapolis than a lot of the clubs in the western suburbs. It's especially close to a couple areas where quite a few young people generally settle in the area post-College; downtown (Loring Park & the Warehouse District) and South Minneapolis. However, even though the club is literally 300 yards over a bridge from Minneapolis, the widespread regional mental roadblock of not crossing the river for anything seems to stand in the way. ;) Of course, historically, almost all of the membership came from the St. Paul side, but that percentage has been shrinking as more members are coming from South Minneapolis.

Maybe it's just because I'm used to sitting in my car for hours daily in Chicago, but the roughly 15-20 min it takes me to get to T&C doesn't seem so bad! :)
H.P.S.

PCCraig

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Attracting Younger Members
« Reply #132 on: October 11, 2012, 08:31:23 AM »

I wonder how much of the issue comes down to location.    From what I have seen, younger professionals and families are more likely to be settling on the minneapolis side, rather the st. paul side.    I know if it was 10-15 minutes closer for me, I would definitely consider joining.


I suspect it has more to do with:

If you have only 21 members under 35, members under 35 might feel a little ... alien to the culture of the club? Birds of a feather flock together, don'tcha know.

And: Your monthlies, once you've passed through the coveted years of "younger," are very high, it seems to me. They've deterred me, at any rate.

But to get back to Mark's point, and to the point I tried to raise earlier: It seems to me that you could get a lot of Golf Only members from both sides of the river. After all, Town & Country might be in St. Paul, but it's closer to DT Mpls. than it is to DT St. Paul.


Dan,

That was a primary purpose of the meeting. How do to tailor the club to be more attractive to younger members, as at only ~20 younger members, there is something obviously off or behind the curve in the culture, amenities, etc.

I'm not sure there is any chance of a "golf only" membership at T&C, or any Country Club-set up. The clubhouse and dining facilities need the usage a lot more than the golf course does, which already supports itself pretty well through 8 outings a year, guest fees, events, etc. Hence why a lot of clubs have "social" memberships which allow people to use all of the facilities except the golf course.
H.P.S.

Terry Lavin

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Attracting Younger Members
« Reply #133 on: October 11, 2012, 08:57:44 AM »
Ah, the perils of texting after a cocktail!  My post was inartfully overstated to make the point that in the "old days" men in the family called the shots and did what they wanted to do with their spare time. My dad wasn't at many of my youth sports events and I can't say that I suffered as a result. Nowadays, with all of the demands on dads to be at the games and to follow their kids on travel teams, there's less time for hanging at the club. Sorry if I offended anybody by suggesting that he was a wimp for caring about his kids.

I'd continue, but I'm getting ready to watch Spongebob with my little guy who turned 16 months the other day.
Nobody ever went broke underestimating the intelligence of the American people.  H.L. Mencken

Mike Hendren

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Attracting Younger Members
« Reply #134 on: October 11, 2012, 09:57:14 AM »
I recently had occasion to play with a guy who was a member at a well known club that has been discussed on this board. He just got out after 48 years knowing that on his 50th anniversary his dues would be dropped to 50% going forward as written in the the by-laws and meant to be a thank you to anyone that had supported the club in that fashion. He told me that he was disgusted with the sorts of enticements that were being dangled to new members and thought that it diluted the value of membership. Additionally he was unhappy with the level of capital improvements being made that were not directly related to the golf course. He advised that he thought newer members should be required to have more skin in the game so as not to get in only to get out a short time later. He mentioned what the initiation was in 2005 compared to now which was certainly a drastic reduction. Not easy to please everyone.

This might be the problem:  the legacy members think of (and likely treat with disdain or segregation) the new generation members as second class citizens, creating a bifurcated membership.  How about something like an over/under golf tourney where old members must be paired with young members. 
Two Corinthians walk into a bar ....

Mark Johnson

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Attracting Younger Members
« Reply #135 on: October 11, 2012, 11:37:01 AM »
Pat,

Can I ask a dumb question?  Specifically, why is T&CC specifically looking for younger members?

Is it because they are anticipating many 70+ members leaving soon?  Is it to help prop up the F&B/Pool operation or is it to increase the quality of play on the course? or maybe some other reason.

the reason i ask is that this may help dictate the direction y'all take.



Mark,

I think it mostly boils down to only having 21 members under 35 out of 325 golfing members. I don't know the average age but I'm guessing its around 55. T&C is a great neighborhood club which is only 10min from either downtown. However they have had a hard time recruiting younger members to join. As you know, it's a pretty traditional place, and I think they were a little behind the game in tailoring the club to younger tastes as discussed above. But with the membership age creeping up, the club has found it's well of younger new members drying up. Does that help?

definitely makes sense.   i didnt realize just how old the membership was.

I wonder how much of the issue comes down to location.    From what I have seen, younger professionals and families are more likely to be settling on the minneapolis side, rather the st. paul side.    I know if it was 10-15 minutes closer for me, I would definitely consider joining.


Mark,

As Dan noted in a later post, T&C is just about in the middle of town and is closer to most of Minneapolis than a lot of the clubs in the western suburbs. It's especially close to a couple areas where quite a few young people generally settle in the area post-College; downtown (Loring Park & the Warehouse District) and South Minneapolis. However, even though the club is literally 300 yards over a bridge from Minneapolis, the widespread regional mental roadblock of not crossing the river for anything seems to stand in the way. ;) Of course, historically, almost all of the membership came from the St. Paul side, but that percentage has been shrinking as more members are coming from South Minneapolis.

Maybe it's just because I'm used to sitting in my car for hours daily in Chicago, but the roughly 15-20 min it takes me to get to T&C doesn't seem so bad! :)

Its a fair point.   I think the challenge becomes how do you get the young people while they are still living in downtown/ S. Minneapolis but before they move out to suburbia.  The challenge is that many people won't have the money to join until they are near 28-30, the exact same time they are moving out to suburbs with kids.

I think T&C would make alot of sense geographically for a single young professional, but I am not sure if these same people would find such a family focused club (with the dues to support, tennis, pool, etc.) as attractive.


Dan Kelly

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Attracting Younger Members
« Reply #136 on: October 11, 2012, 11:44:55 AM »
I think T&C would make alot of sense geographically for a single young professional, but I am not sure if these same people would find such a family focused club (with the dues to support, tennis, pool, etc.) as attractive.

Exactly. This is why I wondered (and continue to wonder) if "country clubs" ever offer Golf Only memberships, as they offer Social Only memberships.

Though I'm not "younger" and can't help you with that problem, I would certainly consider a Golf Only membership, if it meant having access to a very good golf course and not having to pay the dues required to support a bunch of amenities that mean nothing to me.
"There's no money in doing less." -- Joe Hancock, 11/25/2010
"Rankings are silly and subjective..." -- Tom Doak, 3/12/2016

Terry Lavin

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Attracting Younger Members
« Reply #137 on: October 11, 2012, 11:50:55 AM »
I think T&C would make alot of sense geographically for a single young professional, but I am not sure if these same people would find such a family focused club (with the dues to support, tennis, pool, etc.) as attractive.

Exactly. This is why I wondered (and continue to wonder) if "country clubs" ever offer Golf Only memberships, as they offer Social Only memberships.

Though I'm not "younger" and can't help you with that problem, I would certainly consider a Golf Only membership, if it meant having access to a very good golf course and not having to pay the dues required to support a bunch of amenities that mean nothing to me.

You'd see a lot of pools bulldozed, banquet rooms closed and dinner service discontinued if this sort of membership were offered at traditional country clubs.  It is more often the case that the people that just use the facility for golf are the main underwriters for the services that they seldom use.  I'm an example of this at Beverly, where I haven't eaten dinner more than five times in my twenty five years of membership and where I've only exposed my swollen, white abdomen at the pool on two or three occasions (mercifully, of course).  Personally, I don't have any problem with paying for services that are provided mainly for others, because I want those members who use the services to continue to be able to enjoy them, but a "golf only" membership would really help people define what they really want out of a country club these days.
Nobody ever went broke underestimating the intelligence of the American people.  H.L. Mencken

Mark Johnson

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Attracting Younger Members
« Reply #138 on: October 11, 2012, 05:12:45 PM »
I think T&C would make alot of sense geographically for a single young professional, but I am not sure if these same people would find such a family focused club (with the dues to support, tennis, pool, etc.) as attractive.

Exactly. This is why I wondered (and continue to wonder) if "country clubs" ever offer Golf Only memberships, as they offer Social Only memberships.

Though I'm not "younger" and can't help you with that problem, I would certainly consider a Golf Only membership, if it meant having access to a very good golf course and not having to pay the dues required to support a bunch of amenities that mean nothing to me.

You'd see a lot of pools bulldozed, banquet rooms closed and dinner service discontinued if this sort of membership were offered at traditional country clubs.  It is more often the case that the people that just use the facility for golf are the main underwriters for the services that they seldom use.  I'm an example of this at Beverly, where I haven't eaten dinner more than five times in my twenty five years of membership and where I've only exposed my swollen, white abdomen at the pool on two or three occasions (mercifully, of course).  Personally, I don't have any problem with paying for services that are provided mainly for others, because I want those members who use the services to continue to be able to enjoy them, but a "golf only" membership would really help people define what they really want out of a country club these days.

Good point.   The challenge is that i actually think these amenties don't mean as much to the 2nd generation (and potential members).  For instance, my wife and daughter are often invited to the pool of the top 100 country club which is often discussed on this board.  When you get there, you see that the majority of people there arent members but the grown children of members who are sponsored there.    As a result, these children have even less reason to join on a full time basis.

Chris_Hufnagel

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Attracting Younger Members
« Reply #139 on: October 11, 2012, 05:59:58 PM »
I recently had occasion to play with a guy who was a member at a well known club that has been discussed on this board. He just got out after 48 years knowing that on his 50th anniversary his dues would be dropped to 50% going forward as written in the the by-laws and meant to be a thank you to anyone that had supported the club in that fashion. He told me that he was disgusted with the sorts of enticements that were being dangled to new members and thought that it diluted the value of membership. Additionally he was unhappy with the level of capital improvements being made that were not directly related to the golf course. He advised that he thought newer members should be required to have more skin in the game so as not to get in only to get out a short time later. He mentioned what the initiation was in 2005 compared to now which was certainly a drastic reduction. Not easy to please everyone.

This might be the problem:  the legacy members think of (and likely treat with disdain or segregation) the new generation members as second class citizens, creating a bifurcated membership.  How about something like an over/under golf tourney where old members must be paired with young members.  

Michael, this is certainly a problem at my local club.  Several years ago, there was a waiting list and a significant initiation fee - today, you can be playing golf the same day, no initiation fee, with a reduced monthly bill for a two year "probation" period - at that time, if you choose to stay, your monthly bill goes to the standard.  I would guess a similar scenario has played out at a lot of clubs - probably not many of the elite clubs we all talk about on here - but clubs in second tier cities that are competing with multiple other clubs in the same vicinity.  My local club also committed a lot of the "sins" we talk about here - big clubhouse, 36 holes, swimming pool, tennis courts, etc. – too much debt and a declining membership created a lot of problems.  I joined at just about the bottom right after I moved here from the east coast - I benefited from the downturn just the way I benefited when I bought my house here after the bubble burst and the economy went south.  When I am playing a round with someone new, one of the first questions I get asked is - "when did you join?"  The question is both to break the ice, but the hidden agenda is usually to find out how much I have "invested" in the club.  Most of the guys are pretty good about it, you know it bothers them a bit, but they understand why things are the way they are.  Every once in awhile you get someone who is downright hostile about the whole thing, I am certainly empathetic, but it is always a little uncomfortable...
« Last Edit: October 11, 2012, 11:43:35 PM by Chris Hufnagel »

Mark Chaplin

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Attracting Younger Members
« Reply #140 on: October 11, 2012, 06:27:07 PM »
Chris these "hostile" members were part of the club when things went wrong, they should be looking in the mirror and examining their collective failings, rather than taking it out on the newer members who are helping the club to pay it's way out of a hole.
Cave Nil Vino

Ken Moum

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Attracting Younger Members
« Reply #141 on: October 11, 2012, 11:33:42 PM »
Chris these "hostile" members were part of the club when things went wrong, they should be looking in the mirror and examining their collective failings, rather than taking it out on the newer members who are helping the club to pay it's way out of a hole.

+1

At my club, the guy who, as president, made the deal to borrow over a million dollars in 1988 to build a clubhouse that was a millstone around the club's neck 20+ years later actually stood up in one of our last members meetings and proclaimed his pride at having done that deed.

I didn't have the balls to stand up and say, "So you're the dumbass who put us on the road to failure?"

He's a heck of a nice guy, and was involved in the failed negotiations with the bank that resulted in foreclosure, but he and about 90% of the people who served on the board over those years still don't realize that they caused this to happen.

K
Over time, the guy in the ideal position derives an advantage, and delivering him further  advantage is not worth making the rest of the players suffer at the expense of fun, variety, and ultimately cost -- Jeff Warne, 12-08-2010

Patrick_Mucci

Re: Attracting Younger Members
« Reply #142 on: October 13, 2012, 05:33:18 AM »
Ken, Chris, Mark, et. al.,

The more I think of this dilemma, the more I think it occurred because the generation in charge, the generation who ran the clubs and incurred all the debt, didn't listen to the wisdom of the generation that went through the depression.

My dad was 17 in 1929.
He had been orphaned for three years.
He told me how difficult life was for him and his four younger brothers and sisters.
How they found food, eating out of garbage cans, how, like Harry Potter they had to go live with others, how my uncle Tony ran away from one of those homes and hopped a freight train south, only to be surprised one morning when the railroad guards opened the door to the box car and shot and killed the other hobos, sparing him because he was a child.

They had a hard early life and they never forgot it and the values they learned from that life.
They were "security" conscious.

My father and many of his generation feared debt and avoided it if they had a choice.

Many's the time that his peers related horror stories about the Great Depression to me and my friends.
They wanted their experience and their message to sink in, and it did with me.

For the most part, that generation was fiscally conservative.

The next two generations, less so.
Especially with other people's money.

Club after club, other than the old line clubs, spent money on anything and everything.
Capital and operating budgets soared, suddenly, clubs had to be all things to all people.
Every members whim had to be satisfied, so budgets became bloated as facilities and operations expanded.

But things were happening that club leaderships were ignoring.
Utilization of the club facilities was changing drastically.
Dual income earners had more shared responsibilities and clubs were no longer the focal point of the community,
Hence younger members arrived early, played golf and returned home and the older members were eating at the abundance of available restaurants and not from the same menu week in and week out.

As expenses increased, derivative members, always the life blood of clubs, diminished in number.
And, clubs for the most part weren't "family" friendly with minimum ages for golf, pool, dining and licker room access.

So, the dynamic was changing, utilization was changing, but, SPENDING was up.

Because clubs were now populated less and less by generations of members, there wan't the same love for the entity, so when big projects loomed, rather than pay as you go, debt, other than the mortgage, became the rave.
I remember clubs holding mortgage burning parties when their mortgage got paid off.
When getting rid of the financial albatross around the clubs neck was a big deal and a reason to celebrate.
But, the next generation felt differently.  Spend now, get bigger and better, indulge ourselves and we'll pay for it later.

The voices of reason, the voices of the old timers were being ignored in favor of the fervor to get everything they wanted.

So, they spent money on anything and everything and they financed it with debt

No problem when the economy and business were good, just raise the dues and assess.

Enter the current downturn in the economy (I blame Greenspan ;D)

Members leave, but the burden of debt and the high cost of  operations doesn't remain static, per member, with fewer members, so a downward spiral of escalating costs per member causes more members to leave, causing the burden per member to increase.......

Along with this, members got older, many retired, some died, but their ranks weren't replaced by an equal number of younger members due to costs.  And in many cases, the clubs were so strapped that they couldn't redeem the departing members bond and many new young perspective members couldn't afford to pay the bond

Note:  most clubs gave deep discounts to derivatives who joined, but not to their peer age group, another mistake.

The combination of ignorance and arrogance coupled with the loss of financial discipline has led to the current situation and the desperate quest for new, younger members.

But here's the best part.

Knowing all of this, many clubs won't change to meet the new dynamic.

They won't change their operation.

They want to preserve their "culture" even if that leads to the path of their demise.

If I was a young perspective member, I'd look at the club's debt, their financials and their culture.

Clubs that run prudent, trim operations, absent debt, should survive and thrive in the future.

End of rant  ;D

PCCraig

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Attracting Younger Members
« Reply #143 on: October 13, 2012, 07:02:11 AM »
Very well said Pat, thank you for the rant :)
H.P.S.

Dan Herrmann

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Attracting Younger Members
« Reply #144 on: October 13, 2012, 07:11:30 AM »
Pat - I agree - that summarizes everything really well.


Mike Sweeney

Re: Attracting Younger Members
« Reply #145 on: October 13, 2012, 07:19:16 AM »

Clubs that run prudent, trim operations, absent debt, should survive and thrive in the future.


Winged Foot would appear to meet "The Mucci Test" (as of 2007):

http://www.faqs.org/tax-exempt/NY/Winged-Foot-Golf-Club-Inc.html#balanceSheets_a

Mike_Trenham

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Attracting Younger Members
« Reply #146 on: October 13, 2012, 08:11:13 AM »
All efforts should go to attracting active members who will use the club.  When times get tough the members who play regularly and participate don't leave unless it is to a club that may be more attractive for any number of reasons.

Once you get a member there should be just as a concerted effort to get them engrained into the club and it's traditions.
Proud member of a Doak 3.

Patrick_Mucci

Re: Attracting Younger Members
« Reply #147 on: October 13, 2012, 09:35:04 AM »

All efforts should go to attracting active members who will use the club.  When times get tough the members who play regularly and participate don't leave unless it is to a club that may be more attractive for any number of reasons.

Not true.  Financial issues often result in members leaving


Once you get a member there should be just as a concerted effort to get them engrained into the club and it's traditions.

Mike, finances can undo all the ingraining in the world


Roger Wolfe

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Attracting Younger Members
« Reply #148 on: October 19, 2012, 05:29:24 PM »
I am the GM of perhaps the youngest club in the US.  Our average age of the entire membership is 45 and the average age of a member when they join is 37.  Our initiation fee is $22,000.  Everyone pays that in the end.  We defer it for young folks (and charge 5% interest) and encourage financing.  29 and under is 8,000 (3,000 down… financed for 48 months… lump sum payment every 12 months), then $7,000 more at age 30, $7,000 more at age 35.  34 and under is $15,000 (3,000 down… financed for 48 months… lump sum payment every 12 months), $7,000 more at age 35.  Members under the age of 35 get a 30% break on dues.  They are $350.  Our maintenance budget is over $1 million.  We are obsessed with keeping our dues low.  We are full and have been for about 3 years (since the recession hit the Charlotte banks).
We have a state of the art practice facility and a beautiful golf course.  We have a great swimming pool.  We do not have tennis.  We do not have fitness.  Our dining is golf-oriented with families welcome.  We do not have formal dining.  We have Easter.  We have Santa Claus.  We have lawn parties in the summer and “band-oriented” events in the Spring and Fall outside (Shrimpfest, Crabfest, Oyster Roast, Pig Roast).  That is it.
We specialize in families whose children are too young to 1) enjoy the other amenities at the full service clubs and 2) cannot get to those clubs by themselves.  We lose about 15 members per year to the big clubs (Charlotte CC, Quail Hollow and Myers Park CC) which is an important part of our business plan.  They call us the “junior varsity” which is fine by me.  I am not sure I can service someone with that much disposable income.
We do not offer daycare.  We do not try to compete with the multitude of other attractions in and around Charlotte on a regular basis.  Our food minimum is miniscule ($25 per month).  We have events for serious golfers (Member Member, Club Championship, Four Ball Invitational).  We have fun golf events (Couples Nine and Dine, Member Guest, Guest Days, Ryder Cup).  It has worked out very well.  We are a big walking club but do not have mandatory caddies.  Folks are allowed to bring their own push carts and we encourage walking.
The younger members are our biggest spenders.  They spend the most on carts, guests, food and beverage by a LONG SHOT.  How do you attract them?  You adapt your club to their wants and needs.  The old guard isn’t going anywhere.  The last thing you try to do is get them to adapt to YOUR lifestyle.  You allow cell phones on vibrate.  You install WiFi.  You allow blue jeans and hold either family-oriented or music-oriented events.  The old members need to adapt to the YOUNG members… not the other way around. 

Mark Johnson

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Attracting Younger Members
« Reply #149 on: October 19, 2012, 06:48:56 PM »
I am the GM of perhaps the youngest club in the US.  Our average age of the entire membership is 45 and the average age of a member when they join is 37.  Our initiation fee is $22,000.  Everyone pays that in the end.  We defer it for young folks (and charge 5% interest) and encourage financing.  29 and under is 8,000 (3,000 down… financed for 48 months… lump sum payment every 12 months), then $7,000 more at age 30, $7,000 more at age 35.  34 and under is $15,000 (3,000 down… financed for 48 months… lump sum payment every 12 months), $7,000 more at age 35.  Members under the age of 35 get a 30% break on dues.  They are $350.  Our maintenance budget is over $1 million.  We are obsessed with keeping our dues low.  We are full and have been for about 3 years (since the recession hit the Charlotte banks).
We have a state of the art practice facility and a beautiful golf course.  We have a great swimming pool.  We do not have tennis.  We do not have fitness.  Our dining is golf-oriented with families welcome.  We do not have formal dining.  We have Easter.  We have Santa Claus.  We have lawn parties in the summer and “band-oriented” events in the Spring and Fall outside (Shrimpfest, Crabfest, Oyster Roast, Pig Roast).  That is it.
We specialize in families whose children are too young to 1) enjoy the other amenities at the full service clubs and 2) cannot get to those clubs by themselves.  We lose about 15 members per year to the big clubs (Charlotte CC, Quail Hollow and Myers Park CC) which is an important part of our business plan.  They call us the “junior varsity” which is fine by me.  I am not sure I can service someone with that much disposable income.
We do not offer daycare.  We do not try to compete with the multitude of other attractions in and around Charlotte on a regular basis.  Our food minimum is miniscule ($25 per month).  We have events for serious golfers (Member Member, Club Championship, Four Ball Invitational).  We have fun golf events (Couples Nine and Dine, Member Guest, Guest Days, Ryder Cup).  It has worked out very well.  We are a big walking club but do not have mandatory caddies.  Folks are allowed to bring their own push carts and we encourage walking.
The younger members are our biggest spenders.  They spend the most on carts, guests, food and beverage by a LONG SHOT.  How do you attract them?  You adapt your club to their wants and needs.  The old guard isn’t going anywhere.  The last thing you try to do is get them to adapt to YOUR lifestyle.  You allow cell phones on vibrate.  You install WiFi.  You allow blue jeans and hold either family-oriented or music-oriented events.  The old members need to adapt to the YOUNG members… not the other way around. 


you had me until blue jeans.

other than that, i think you are right on the money.

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