[Phil McDade]

Pat:

Somewhat out of left field, but I'll throw in my two cents (having followed Groucho Marx's dictum, I know little about the mechanics of joining a club).

Find a way for your club to start hosting high school golf tournaments, or junior tournaments, or if the course is good enough (like Olympia Fields does), collegiate ones (ask Jeff Goldman or Terry Lavin about the vibe at Olympia F. when they host a collegiate tournament). Consider becoming the "home" course for matches for a local high school.

These folks are your future members. Maybe not the ones who play there specifically when in high school (or college), but you get my point. The world of junior golfers is incredibly tight; in any given area/state, these kids all know each other. Create a good vibe about your club. Have the membership help out a bit at the tournament. Grill up some burgers and hot dogs and feed 'em for free. Give them a free green fixer-upper tool or a sleeve of balls with the club logo. Give them 20 percent off at the pro shop. Make them feel welcome, and not like a stodgy club (and some clubs with a relaxed vibe don't have to do much in that regard).

I'm of the view that, in any endeavor, you can create the greatest thing in the world, but if you wait for people to come in, you're losing ground, because it's a competitive world out there. Grab some young golfers and bring them in (at a relatively low cost to the club), and make it a good experience.

[K. Krahenbuhl]

If a club sets their initiation fee lower for junior members they also need to provide a way for the members to build equity in their membership during their term as a junior member (% of dues goes towards remaining initiation) like Olympia Fields and many other clubs do.  Without this you'll have a huge drop out rate at the age of 35 when the initiation is due and people are starting families, buying homes and generally spending their money elsewhere.

[Alex Miller]

If a club sets their initiation fee lower for junior members they also need to provide a way for the members to build equity in their membership during their term as a junior member (% of dues goes towards remaining initiation) like Olympia Fields and many other clubs do.  Without this you'll have a huge drop out rate at the age of 35 when the initiation is due and people are starting families, buying homes and generally spending their money elsewhere.

Agreed. I'm not familiar with the models out there now, but considering the stages in life people are at seems paramout in establishing a model.

Would a model like this work? Does it exist? Is it too complex?

<30: pay 10% initiation, 60% dues, 25% of dues toward initiation
30-39: pay 20% initiation (if not yet a member or 20% not reached yet), pay full dues, 40% of which goes toward initiation with the difference being assessed at age 40

[Mark Johnson]

I think there are several issues being discussed here

1)  How do you attract more Junior members
2)  How to build a club to attract more junior members

A lot of this discussion is about to how build a club to attract junior members.    Seems like there are 2 schools of thoughs a) create a ton of amenties or b) focus on lower costs.   personally, i'd pick b since if you are going to support fine dining, swimming, tennis, you are going to create much higher monthly dues.

The tricky part is that you need to attact members to the club you already have.    If you already have a pool, you arent going to shut it down and if you dont have one, you aren't going to build one.

I think the key for a club is getting the right mix of people.   Ultimately, this will help your cost structure since it will spread out play.   If you have a majority 40 unders,  everyone will want to play at 8am on saturday morning,  if you have an older membership, the peak times will be wed and friday midday.

The key is really to emphasize through marketing the strength that you already have.

For me  (34 years old),  my priorities were:

- quality course
- locations
- high number of single digit handicap
- tee time availaility on weekend morning, post-dinner on weekdays
- pace of play
- lack of pretense

Not sure if this is the same for all younger members, but it is probably pretty close.

[Mark Woodger]

For me  (34 years old),  my priorities were:

- quality course
- locations
- high number of single digit handicap
- tee time availaility on weekend morning, post-dinner on weekdays
- pace of play
- lack of pretense

Not sure if this is the same for all younger members, but it is probably pretty close.


[/quote]

This is a pretty accurate list of my priorities.

I live in Brooklyn and work in CT. I would love to find a club that i can play a few holes on the way home during the week and then maybe 18 early on weekend. I am happy to drive an hour for that pleasure on the weekend. However the few clubs in the area i have reached out too have offered a special deal on joining but to be honest it has not been that special. Annual dues slightly reduced and lower initiation but they then nickle and dime me with charges for club storage, caddies, caddy program, food minimum etc etc. So it adds at least another 2k on the bottom line of what i actually have to pay each year.

Let me pay for what i use and don't make me pay for these extras that i don't need.

So whilst clubs are maybe saying we need more under 35 members from my experience i have not seen many who have really offered a compelling proposition that makes it worth joining a club. I would love to hear of clubs that have made a success of adding a large number of under 35 members.

[JMEvensky]

Let me pay for what i use and don't make me pay for these extras that i don't need.

This is why the future of member owned private clubs is so tenuous,IMO.

I don't mean to pick on you,this is a very common refrain.But,it runs counter to the premise upon which most clubs were built--golf members subsidize everything else.

Unfortunately,almost every club has spent the last 50+ years building up a system which makes your approach impossible.Allowing you or any prospective member to pick and choose which amenities to pay for would be slow suicide.

[Jeff Goldman]

None of this is legal advice, but one thing for US clubs to remember in designing these programs is that tax exempt clubs face certain restrictions on favoring one group of members over another in certain ways.  For the current subject, the IRS would look unfondly on a program whereby a certain membership category had privileges essentially equal to regular members but paid far lower dues. These things can be structured to minimize the risk of anything bad happening, but you do need to be a little careful (and the IRS does seem to be stepping up its review of tax exempt entities like presumably wealthy country clubs).

[Mark Woodger]

JM,

you may well be correct. But maybe the clubs will survie longer offering my approach (or remove these extras entirely) than if they stick with the same model and close anyway because their membership gets too old to support the club? I appreciate we can't answer this question.

I understand why clubs have these features and some memebers really like them and feel it adds to the status of the club but if you have an enjoyable course, with friendly and active staff/members you don't really need much else. If you are healthy enough to play golf you can a)get your clubs out of your car b) walk the course pulling/carrying your clubs then these other features are not needed. and i would suggest that I am not the only person out there who thinks like this and it is a reason under 35s don't join clubs if they were in a position to do so.

The best way to attract a younger member IMHO is to make it good value for money now, with a known cost each year and set the future expectation that when you reach a certain age you will be expected to pay more to support the future younger members. I also like the idea of the annual dues also contributing to the balance of the initiation fees.

I live in NYC so its more expensive than other parts of the country. that is my choice and if it means i can't join a club as a result then that is the cost my choosing to live in NYC.

[ChipRoyce]

Just saw this thread... most have been covered already

1) Preferred times for dads with young families
(Living in the south, EVERYONE wants to get out on the course before it gets hot and Dads get screwed, creating tension at home)

2) Smart initiation fee structures
(Covered already)

3) Some relaxing of the rules, but not too much
(There's a fine line between being jeans and cell phone friendly and taking away the luster of a great club. Too casual becomes a slippery slope)

4) Make sure the retired folks don't dominate the club
(Our club on midweek mornings is dominated by a core group of 100 retirees. They are *generally* good about not hogging tee times on weekends. However, sometimes get a little omniprescent. Clubs needs to manage the situation where young guys can get out and hang out.)

5) Family Friendly
(Any amenties that benefit spouses make it easier for Dad to get out to play; get the wife out playing golf programs, kids camps and daycare, great pool facilities, etc...)

[David Cronheim]

As a 27 year old, I fall squarely into the market and demographic you're discussing here. I'm a young professional, as many of you know a lawyer. I work hard and don't have as much free time as I'd like, but I still love to golf and am happy to be a member of two private clubs. For me, the biggest hurdle is absolutely a high initiation fee. Even if I can afford to pay the fee, I'm looking to buy my first house in the coming years and can't justify taking $20,000 away from that pursuit to join a club.  Like many young professionals who are fortunate to have secured decently high-paying jobs, I can afford the monthly mortgage payments, but coming up with the nut for a downpayment is much more difficult. I know I speak for many of my friends as well.

I agree with others here who have said that letting young members pay the initiation fee over time is a great way to attract young members. The total pricetag is less concerning than the immediacy of payment. That said, lower dues are also a must. There are plenty of young people out there who would happily plunk down $15,000 to join a club (if you let them pay it over 5 years) where the dues were $500/month all in.

[Mark Woodger]

I agree with others here who have said that letting young members pay the initiation fee over time is a great way to attract young members. The total pricetag is less concerning than the immediacy of payment. That said, lower dues are also a must. There are plenty of young people out there who would happily plunk down $15,000 to join a club (if you let them pay it over 5 years) where the dues were $500/month all in.

These numbers are exactly the right level imho.

[David Cronheim]

Mark,

One other point I'd raise is that much more so than older folks, I think younger members run a cost/benefit analysis. They'll join if they feel like they're getting a good deal. For example, I had a friend who recently joined a club where they waived his initiation because he was under 30 (normally it was something on the order of $12,500). His dues were $5,000 a year. He figured that he played 6 rounds a month at roughly $80/round (assume 7 months of golf - April through October). It wasn't exactly $5,000 he was spending, but the difference was minimal enough that he decided it was better to belong somewhere rather than playing random public courses. He also assumed (correctly) that he'd play more golf that way and that the private course was a better layout and maintained better than the public options he was forking over real cash to play.

He felt like he was getting a deal and it made sense from a cost/benefit perspective. The mere fact he looked at it that way makes it different in many respects from older golfers who could never expect a private club membership to roughly equate to the cost of their public golf when the initiation fee was $25,000+ and dues were $10,000 a year. Make someone a deal or show them value and they'll join.

[Mark Woodger]

agree 100% with you David. what course was that? was it in the NYC area?

[C. Squier]

I'll try to clean up Lavin and Goldman's recollection of the associate membership at OFCC.  It's $10k upfront, dues count towards remaining downstroke which is due at 35.  Dues are discounted, but run up gradually until regular dues begin.  The downstroke is a big enough number that guys (and a few gals!) are invested in the club and avoids the "rent a club" mentality, but not so much that it scares guys away.  Even if you could afford a monster downstroke, there are plenty of other things in this world that are fighting for that money too.  Monthly dues ramp up at a steady rate, never making a big leap that would force a guy to make a decision on whether its "just not worth it" anymore.  

We do have a fairly large group of associate members, of which I'm one of.  As a group, we're not interested in relaxed dress codes or anything else that dumbs down the experience.  A little pomp and circumstance is just fine, even appreciated.  Club members can now walk and carry at any time, which made a lot of us happy.  Booze counting towards the club minimum isn't a bad thing either.  Never understood why it wouldn't....you know a guy will order something off the menu if he sticks around for a few beers.  

Here's a trick:  Treat my wife like a queen at the club.  Train the pool staff to remember her name just as well as the golf staff knows mine.  Encourage her to bring her friends along as well.  I'm a member b/c there are 2 damned good golf courses there.  She doesn't care one iota about that, so there has to be something in it for her to appreciate the place.  For many guys, you'd have to bulldoze the courses to get them to ever think about quitting....so don't worry about us.  Make the wives love the place and you'll win the day.

[Jim Sherma]

Chris - I was thinking of making the same assessment. I know I can talk myself into many cost/benefit analyses around golf spending that the wife would never go for. If a club does not make itself a place that the wife and kids feel comfortable at then they will be in trouble. Sure there will be select old-school places that can survive with no concern of anything other than the golfers, but most clubs do not have that luxury. When I joined my club at the beginnning of htis year there was no way I would have been able to justify the expense just for my golf. Knowing that my wife is comfortable with making use of the facilities and the social options made it an easy decision to join once my kids got a little older (5 and 8 now).

Here's a trick:  Treat my wife like a queen at the club.  Train the pool staff to remember her name just as well as the golf staff knows mine.  Encourage her to bring her friends along as well.  I'm a member b/c there are 2 damned good golf courses there.  She doesn't care one iota about that, so there has to be something in it for her to appreciate the place.  For many guys, you'd have to bulldoze the courses to get them to ever think about quitting....so don't worry about us.  Make the wives love the place and you'll win the day.

[Paul Jones]

My club has very low initiation fee for Junior Members and there dues are almost 1/2 price.  The best part is the club takes a percentage of there monthly dues and saves it to be applied to the initiation fee when they turn 35 and have to become a Stock Holder.

[Dan Byrnes]

As mentioned earlier child care can be a big draw.  A friend was a member of a place in Columbus, OH called Kingsley or similar and they could get 2 hours of free child care and then paid for excess of two hours.  This allowed both the husband and wife to play with friends on weekends as well as enjoy couple night on Friday nights if I remember correctly.

This caused lots. Of folks to join and truly use their club.  Really helped solidify the social fabric of the club.  Lots of couples played Friday nights the kids had a blast and actually looked forward to seeing their friends.  Same for the parents who enjoyed golf, time with friends and spend money on dinner and drinks. 

It made it very easy for the folks to use the club and spend money but also made the club an integral part of their lives and social networking.

Dan

[David Cronheim]

This topic has diverged a little bit. I think it's important to bear in mind that the strategies for recruiting junior members are totally differnt for:

1) Young families

2) Young professionals

The two groups have very little in common in what they're looking for except a concern for price. The best strategy is to get young people in before they get married and make it affordable for them to stay afterwards. Hell if someone joins at 25 and pays dues for 10 years, I think the club has done just fine by them without hitting them with a second big fee at 35.

[Stephen Davis]

I am going to reveal my lack of knowledge on the workings of private clubs, but could someone please define what "downstroke" means? This is not a term I am familiar with and as a young person who is looking to join a club soon, I would love to know. Also, as someone who fits the demographic that is being discussed here, I think that many of the ideas put forth here have been very good. I know for myself some of the things that have kept me from joining are:

1) the courses lack the quality to keep my interest.
2) as has been stated, the initial fee is onerous for people who are also in the time of life where they are looking to purchase a home. This has been especially true in recent years. 
3) cost/benefit just wasn't there.
4) food and drink minimums just don't make any sense to a person with small kids. It is not often that we go out to eat. It is tough with small kids and a country club setting is not the place to have noisy kids.

[Mark Johnson]

This topic has diverged a little bit. I think it's important to bear in mind that the strategies for recruiting junior members are totally differnt for:

1) Young families

2) Young professionals

The two groups have very little in common in what they're looking for except a concern for price. The best strategy is to get young people in before they get married and make it affordable for them to stay afterwards. Hell if someone joins at 25 and pays dues for 10 years, I think the club has done just fine by them without hitting them with a second big fee at 35.

Great point David.   Something else to consider is that 2 groups have very different values to the club.   the toung families will spend a lot more on F&D assuming that the club has family faciliities.

Young professionals will be more interested in a golf club while the families may be looking for a country club.

[Chris_Hufnagel]

I am going to reveal my lack of knowledge on the workings of private clubs, but could someone please define what "downstroke" means?

"Downstroke" equals initiation fee...

[Stephen Davis]

I am going to reveal my lack of knowledge on the workings of private clubs, but could someone please define what "downstroke" means?

"Downstroke" equals initiation fee...

Thank you! That is what I thought, but I just hadn't seen an actual definition.

[Jim Sherma]

This topic has diverged a little bit. I think it's important to bear in mind that the strategies for recruiting junior members are totally differnt for:

1) Young families

2) Young professionals

The two groups have very little in common in what they're looking for except a concern for price. The best strategy is to get young people in before they get married and make it affordable for them to stay afterwards. Hell if someone joins at 25 and pays dues for 10 years, I think the club has done just fine by them without hitting them with a second big fee at 35.

Actually these populations probably have a lot of overlap.

David - it sounds like you are discussing something like "sweat equity". This sounds similar to having some percentage of the dues going towards the buy-in for full membership.

[Dan Kelly]

I was recently asked by my club's membership director and committee chairman to be a part of a group discussion for ways to attract young(er) members. As it stands today, I would say that it's a fairly typical country club (golf course, pool, tennis courts, etc) and is mostly geared toward families. However, like most clubs across the country, its average membership age is starting to rise and those in charge would like to see more young members.

Does anyone have any similar experiences with their respective courses/clubs? Have you seen anything in particular that attracts new young members and increases their usage of the club? Do you have any ideas as to how you would attract more young people to join a golf/country club?

Thanks in advance for any help or ideas.

Golf ONLY memberships? Do other country clubs offer non-social memberships, as well as social memberships?

[Dan Herrmann]

Exactly. Has anybody joined a club as a golfing member because of the food?

I have essentially a golf only membership.  No way could I afford another $150 per month for fancy dinners.

I am guessing many younger folks would feel the same way.   Besides- what 28 year old wants to bring a date to a club dining room filled with folks older than his parents? 

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