[Ben Jarvis]

This is a very interesting topic and one that I'm close to.

Firstly, who do we define as a "younger member" - what is the cut off age?

There are a couple of Melbourne clubs (Sandbelt included) that are beginning to provide initiatives for younger people. One Sandbelt club has reduced their joining fee by 50% for under-40's.

I am 27 years of age and fall in this "younger member" category. I for one would join a club to feel a sense of belonging and the aspects of what a club can provide - competitions, events, meeting new people, forming new friendships etc. However, I think I'm in the minority in respect to this.

Most young people join a club to get value for money, and aren't concerned about being a part of the "club".

[BHoover]

This is a very interesting topic and one that I'm close to.

Firstly, who do we define as a "younger member" - what is the cut off age?

There are a couple of Melbourne clubs (Sandbelt included) that are beginning to provide initiatives for younger people. One Sandbelt club has reduced their joining fee by 50% for under-40's.

I am 27 years of age and fall in this "younger member" category. I for one would join a club to feel a sense of belonging and the aspects of what a club can provide - competitions, events, meeting new people, forming new friendships etc. However, I think I'm in the minority in respect to this.

Most young people join a club to get value for money, and aren't concerned about being a part of the "club".

Out of curiosity, what does junior membership cost at a typical Sandbelt club?  Very jealous of you folks in Melbourne, by the way.

[Mark McKeever]

Holding off initiation until the member is 35 has worked well at our club.  We have had a lot of juniors signing up.

Mark

[Ben Jarvis]

This is a very interesting topic and one that I'm close to.

Firstly, who do we define as a "younger member" - what is the cut off age?

There are a couple of Melbourne clubs (Sandbelt included) that are beginning to provide initiatives for younger people. One Sandbelt club has reduced their joining fee by 50% for under-40's.

I am 27 years of age and fall in this "younger member" category. I for one would join a club to feel a sense of belonging and the aspects of what a club can provide - competitions, events, meeting new people, forming new friendships etc. However, I think I'm in the minority in respect to this.

Most young people join a club to get value for money, and aren't concerned about being a part of the "club".

Out of curiosity, what does junior membership cost at a typical Sandbelt club?  Very jealous of you folks in Melbourne, by the way.

Brian

The age bracket for junior members is not the same at each club, I believe.

The Sandbelt club I particularly made mention of is Commonwealth - http://commonwealthgolf.com.au/guests/membership/information.mhtml

For an under-40, the joining fee at the moment is $5,000 (normally $10,000) and can be paid off in installments (max. 10).

Their annual subscriptions is also reduced for under-40's, and are increased every four years i.e. 20-23, 24-27, 28-31, 32-35, 36-39.

[Dan Byrnes]

The keys from my experience in club management are.

Low or no upfront initiation, younger folks are hesitant to lay out cash for something that they are unsure of.  The younger folks are also more geographical mobile so moving out of area is an issue

Try to encourage a large young population.  The key is to get them hooked on the lifestyle prior to marriage and kids if possible, club and friends there need to become their social circle, so when things change with marriage and kids they are already invested into the club and friends there.  It makes it harder to leave.  The golf is just the activity which drives the social development.

Get them involved in tournaments, weekend games etc,  Active Pro shop who plays match maker to these folks so they quickly integrate.  Especially the clubs special tournament and social events

Get them involved in men's and women's league - great for acclimating to membership and meeting people.
Friendly ands cheap guest privlidges, you want these folks bringing their friends to expand the pool of membership

One of the biggest hurdles in membership anywhere is that folks like to play in their regular foursomes doesn't allow for integrating new members

In the end retaining membership is about much more than playing golf.  Golf can be played in lots of places and for less money typically so make them appreciate the value and social aspects of membership.

Dan

[Mike_Trenham]

The keys from my experience in club management are.

Low or no upfront initiation, younger folks are hesitant to lay out cash for something that they are unsure of.  The younger folks are also more geographical mobile so moving out of area is an issue

Try to encourage a large young population.  The key is to get them hooked on the lifestyle prior to marriage and kids if possible, club and friends there need to become their social circle, so when things change with marriage and kids they are already invested into the club and friends there.  It makes it harder to leave.  The golf is just the activity which drives the social development.

Get them involved in tournaments, weekend games etc,  Active Pro shop who plays match maker to these folks so they quickly integrate.  Especially the clubs special tournament and social events

Get them involved in men's and women's league - great for acclimating to membership and meeting people.
Friendly ands cheap guest privlidges, you want these folks bringing their friends to expand the pool of membership

One of the biggest hurdles in membership anywhere is that folks like to play in their regular foursomes doesn't allow for integrating new members

In the end retaining membership is about much more than playing golf.  Golf can be played in lots of places and for less money typically so make them appreciate the value and social aspects of membership.

Dan

+2 this is 100% right who cares about how great the food or golf courses is if they have 30 friends at the club.

[Dan Byrnes]

Of course what is defined as young?

I was young when I joined my first club in my late twenties compared to the membership at large.  Problem is I am still on the younger range twenty years later?

I think what is considered young is older.  Clubs who wanted sub 30's now are hoping for sub 40's.

Another factor is how to acclimate to the higher prices, if it costs say 5k under 30 it can't go to 10k at 31?  The income isn't rising that fast and they will look at it as too extreme a increase.  Unfortunately this is difficult to implement as a 45 year old paying full freight isn't too excited to see a 10 year member who is 37 paying a fraction of the dues they pay

Additionally the females control much more of the decision process than in older generations so the key is to get them involved socially, golfing and pool, exercise facilities.  The membership looked upon as the place the husband goes to play golf and drink with his buddies doesn't gain much support in todays young households and while it didn't in my house either it seems younger couples are more equal than ever or perhaps shifted to the husband having less control than ever.

Dan

[Wayne_Kozun]

I think there are very specific issues that are often unique to each market but the advice posted by Dan is fantastic. 

The problem often is the inertia that sets in with older more established members that don't take well to change and don't really want things like women playing on Saturday and Sunday mornings or children at their golf club.  But I think that couples playing on weekends morningis is one of the hardest hurdles to overcome, especially if it is already hard for "full" members to get a tee time on a weekend morning.  But in the long run it may be what is best for the club, but it is certainly not the norm at most "old-school" private clubs.

The one thing not mentioned by Dan, but mentioned by someone else, is childcare.  If my club had childcare on Sat and Sun mornings then it would be far easier for me to get out and play more often (note that my wife does not play) as my wife would not mind me playing at this time.

It appears that there are also different definitions of the term "junior".  At my club a junior is someone under 18.  Intermediates are the 18-35 cohort that we are working hard to attract.

[JLahrman]

Great point!

Lower the initiation fee and/or stretch it out over a few years.  Lower the normal dues until a certain age.  I'm unsure I'd look to change anything else.  

To me, the allure of joining specific clubs is that I want to be a part of that club...that is something about that club appeals to me.  If you start changing things to attract members, you might change the precise thing that makes people want to be a member.

I would think that lowering the initiation fee would have been one of the first things that came to mind for the club too.

I understand the allure about wanting to be part of "the club". I don't understand holding to the standards so tightly that the membership just dies off. If the current standards were producing a sustainable membership, they wouldn't be looking to adjust them.

Change the standards to make it more attractive to me, and chances are you're attracting people like me.

There are lots of reason why the younger crowd hasn't been interested in, or invited to join. Financial reasons are very likely one them. But if the initiation fee is all you're going to change, you better hope that financial reasons are far and away the biggest factor.

[Jeff Goldman]

We at Olympia Fields do try to have an attractive
Junior (we call it Associate) program. It started with the understanding that at many  clubs the average age of a
Member is dead, and that is not good for the future of any club.  We also believe that any member has to have some skin in the game, and really want to be there.  So we require a decent upfront payment (I think it is now $6000 or so), and we do count dues against the rest of the initiation fee, due when the member turns 35. Dues are low as well, gradually rising to be close to full dues at age 34.

The program has been a great success. Our "conversion" rate is over 80 percent, and we have upwards of 45-50 of these members, including a lot of terrific men and women golfers. They are young executives and business people who do a lot of entertaining and for the most part have really bought into what we do. A number get together for standing "just show up" games on weekends as well, but have also been integrated into the regular membership.

[Richard Choi]

I know of one sure fire way to add younger members - provide after-school programs for young kids.

For most families these days, both parents work and finding a good after-school activities for their kids is paramount. If there was an after-school program for school aged kids at a local golf club where they can spend time playing golf or other activities, it would be very very attractive to those parents 45 and under who have enough cash to pay for the downstroke and the monthly payments.

It will bind the parents to the club for a good decade or so, during which they will form bonds with other members that will be hard to break after kids get older. And it will also expose the young kids to the club so that when they get older, they will be more likely to join.

This is pretty much the reason why I joined my tennis club...

[Matthew Essig]

Does younger members = Have kids start playing golf? OR Young adults joining the club?

[David Davis]

Our club (in The Netherlands) has started trial (junior) memberships to young people under 30. When they turn 30 they have to have proven they are actively participating in the club and be able to get 3 new signatures of senior members other than the ones they needed to sign up for the Junior membership. They pay half the annual fees, have no voting rights, and are required to play in a minimum number of club tournaments. Almost all of these people choose to become senior members at which time they are also required to pay the contribution (initiation fee) which can be payed over 3 years.

I think this works well. Put whatever age on it you wish. Each of these younger members needs to have 3 senior members that are in essence responsible for them sign and write letters on their behalf. One of these senior members acts as a mentor and helps them integrate.

I don't think it's about rules at all, all the rules should be the same as they are, standards maintained etc.

[Patrick Kiser]

Old thread for reference:

http://golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,25854.5

[Sean_A]

There is no one answer, but in general, making membership cheaper is the single biggest factor against a person of any age joining a club - well this and a lot of folks don't play golf. 

Ciao

[Adrian_Stiff]

I agree there is no one answer. In reading this thread what came over clear to me is, it is very different in the UK than in the USA and in that respect, you have got a much tougher problem than here in the UK where money is less of an issue as we dont really have food and beverage minimums and joining/initiation fees exist only in about 25% of clubs now. We have a joining fee which can be spread over 5 years and amounts to £100 or £200 per year on the subscription, if you leave after 2 or 3 years you are not responsible for years 4 and 5. People move around with jobs and situations change. We also have zero join fee for under 29s.

The problem is if we go under 29 free, the next club will go under 30 and another under 32 and so on, getting members, retaining them has become a 'rat race'. In the UK the most important factors are not the course, our culture is very different, proximity and where your mates play weigh heavy in the decsion.

We have been over the dress and phone situations in other threads, and whilst we all have our own hates a relaxed situation is a 90%-10% attract-detract. Some people will like a stricter regime and that will be the reason for them to join as Scott Warren eluded. Its not wrong for him but certainly in the UK its a minor opinion. I dont like hats back to front, I dont really mind hats worn in the clubhouse, I dont like jewellery in mens heads or tattoos....I accept I am a minor opinion though and must shut up. White vans in the car park will cause some offence to some....this list goes on of just how the barriers have fallen. The majority of our members change in the car park, some days the changing rooms are empty, that is a complete 360 degree turn from the days when I started playing golf.

This thread is interesting also in how you define 'Younger' members, some of you see it as high as under 40. The world has changed as is changing, clubs can chose to be snobotoriums and that will suit some, those I suspect will be the sinkers over time. In 15 years I know of 1 course that was the best in town and now is the one that has gone to ratshit.... it chose the snobotorium route.

[Duncan Cheslett]

The problem that golf clubs have got themselves into in the UK is that the benefits of belonging to a single club are no longer obvious to very many golfers.

Average club membership works out at something like £15 - £20 per week throughout the year. For hopeless addicts like myself who plays at least two full rounds a week as well as a few holes after work most days this is a bargain - but most guys play once or twice a week in the summer and seldom in the winter; maybe 40 rounds a year at most. For £15 - £25 a round in my area you could play a different course every week and still not have travel more than 20 miles! Why tie yourself to one place?

There seems to be a hardcore in every club for whom 'The Club' has great importance. Most other members are simply there to play golf, with many of them never breaching the theshold of the clubhouse. For many enthusiastic players of the game, the traditional golf club model is irrelevent. They just want to play golf on a nice course, or courses, at an affordable price.

With the internet bringing us virtual golf societies where nomadic golfers can organise and join regular open games and competitions at discounted green fees at a variety of courses the historic necessity to be in a club to have a ready supply of playing partners is no more.

I do not see an easy way back. Clubs need to evolve to cater for this more nomadic and casual customer base, without antagonising an existing membership who object to the very idea of the course being full of fee-paying visitors and societies.

It's a hard line to walk.



Attracting young members is the easy bit - keeping them is the problem. How many young men in their early thirties can justify golf club membership when children start to arrive?

How about half-price membership dues to all those with a child under the age of 10?

[Ulrich Mayring]

You gotta get then invested in the club, so if they're walking away, they're walking away from an amount that will hurt a little.

I completely disagree with that. Don't rely on trickery to suck people in, it will backfire. If all that keeps people from leaving your club is loss of financial investment, then you're not running a good business. Provide value for money and nobody will want to leave and many new members will want to join.

Ulrich

[Adrian_Stiff]

You gotta get then invested in the club, so if they're walking away, they're walking away from an amount that will hurt a little.

I completely disagree with that. Don't rely on trickery to suck people in, it will backfire. If all that keeps people from leaving your club is loss of financial investment, then you're not running a good business. Provide value for money and nobody will want to leave and many new members will want to join.

Ulrich

I think largely your right Ulrich and thats good buisness practice generally for pretty much everything. On the other side I can see the reasoning, with no joining fees members will migrate to 'this years best deal' and it all becomes a rat race. Loyalty can be found in a number ways though but if you really want loyalty....buy a dog.

Duncan - All good points. Big percentages of members dont even play 40 times, the average is probably the high 20s and the problem often is committees see themselves playing 60-70 times as average and just dont understand the problem because they have no tee time checking systems....so they are not spotting that Johnny Jones is paying £800 PER YEAR and playing 23 times.

[Mark Chaplin]

Duncan there will be plenty of Americans laughing at £15-£20 per week total dues. That is how much it costs to get to the first tee in tips alone at many courses. $5 for the valet parking, $10 to the caddie master and $10 to the lockeroom attendant. Oh and don't forget the $10,000 annual, $250 per month food minimum and $80 per round for your neighbour's kid to carry your bag and rake the bunkers.

I think I can work out why attracting younger members can be difficult on the other side if the pond!

[Adrian_Stiff]

The USA model just makes no sense and as time passes has virtually zero chance of continuing. Maybe it has some kind of chance if the initiation fee is more like equity, so a member buys in an owns a stake in the golf club.... Who owns these member golf courses? If its the members could the golf club not be split into say 100,000 Shares and each member owns a piece. That way you can navigate past some members not having to pay an initiation (they get no stake) or even a discounted rate..... Its a way you can appease the long standing member thats literally paid his dues.

[Duncan Cheslett]

Duncan there will be plenty of Americans laughing at £15-£20 per week total dues.

I'm sure you're right, Mark.

Golf in the UK is extremely cheap - almost certainly too cheap. Hence why so many clubs are in trouble. My point is that there is simply no need to join a golf club in the UK because the average once a week player can play wherever he fancies for the same kind of money.

I know lots of golfers who play their regular games at various local clubs for £15- £20 green fees, and then treat themselves once in a while to a £50 round at a more prestigious course. This model even allows for the odd visit to Birkdale or Wallasey without breaking the bank.

Green fees seem to be getting even cheaper. A good championship links course in North Wales is currently advertising play at almost any time for £15.00.  One of the best clubs in Manchester is on TeeOffTimes at £20.00

No wonder clubs are having difficulty filling their membership - young or old. The appeal of belonging to a club at all is of little importance to many (most?) golfers. I suspect this reflects a change in society as much as anything.

The other important aspect of course, is that in uncertain times no-one wants to make an uneccesary financial commitment. Club membership is a financial commitment, and for the reasons given above, unnecessary.

[Ulrich Mayring]

It's not unnecessary if you play a lot. Isn't it somewhat obvious that clubs should cater to those, who spend a lot of time at the club? What else is a club, if not the place where you spend a lot of time?

So why run after once in a while players, they are clearly not interested in spending a lot of time at the club and they are the ones, who will go after every year's best deal. Membership dues should be so that playing frequently will make for a lower cost per round as it would paying a one-off greenfee. Then it all makes sense economically for everyone and that is the basis you need for any business. First it must make sense economically, then you can try to get your members invested emotionally.

The question how to attract new members then boils down to how can you convince people to play more frequently? In other words: how do you get younger guys and gals to get into the golf lifestyle?

Interestingly, many clubs approach this from exactly the opposite direction: they ask how can they get members to play less frequently, in order to free up extra tee times for guests or sponsored events. But in my mind relying economically on members, who hardly play at all, will not produce the kind of golf lifestyle at your club that you need to attract younger members.

Ulrich

[Mike Sweeney]

The USA model just makes no sense and as time passes has virtually zero chance of continuing.

Adrian,

Your model is the one that seems to make the most sense to me as the future of golf in the USA. A variety of price points for a variety of lifestyles:

http://www.theplayersgolfclub.com/membership/membership-pricing/

When you state the "USA model" and Mark states the tipping fees to get to the first tee as USA clubs, I think this incorrect view can be linked to the Mucciazation of Golf Club Atlas. There is a market here in USA beyond the private clubs of the Northeast and Florida! We have 15,000 golf courses and each one probably has it own unique "membership" model.

Reality is second tier old school private country clubs will struggle the same way that "private city athletic clubs" were taken over in the last 20 years by the modern day public sports clubs with fantastic facilities and pricing models. See Chelsea Piers:

http://www.chelseapiers.com/ NYC
http://www.chelseapiersct.com/ Connecticut

I see it every day as my "private city athletic/college club" (aka The Cornell Club in New York City) has a growing list of "reciprocal" arrangements with private golf and country clubs. Obviously they are not going to send you out on a Saturday morning at any of the reciprocals, but they are clearly exploring different paths for revenues.

Then you have The Outpost Club and some other internet clubs where private clubs are showing up more and more for off-peak tee times.

It is a changing market for probably 90% of the private clubs and 100% of the public golf courses in the USA. At the end of the day, they all need more golfers and a bunch of old white guys asking a young white guy (Pat Craig) how to pull in golfers from the public market simply shifts the problem around.

The golf industry in the USA needs women (which brings in the kids) and minorities to grow as minorities will soon be the majority in the USA:

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/05/17/us/whites-account-for-under-half-of-births-in-us.html?pagewanted=all

This website is a great source of fun and interesting conversations about architecture and related topics, but if I was in the golf industry like you, I would run away from the group think business model of GCA.com. 

[Dan Herrmann]

Ben - most clubs in metro Philly have no reciprocity.  Completely different than when I was in Portland, OR were we had a lot of reciprocity.  Guess it's a cultural thing.

And we had that you can bring a gal out to play golf for free thing.  It was great.  (by the way, they didn't have a single member category, so to make it up to us, they allowed it).

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