an indelicate question - Seve's Gamesmanship ... did it ever cross a line?

[Carl Rogers]

Can this queston be discussed here?

[Mark Pearce]

Yes, it can be discussed and yes, sometimes it probably did.  That's part of what made him the hero he was, to me at least.  Perfect heroes are rather boring, don't you think?

[JMEvensky]

Mike Clayton or Pat Burke could answer this better than anyone else.

Keep bumping it until they see it.

[Howard Riefs]

Gamesmanship? Seve? Not if you ask Olazabal.

"No, that was not the spirit of the Ryder Cup. That was not his idea at all. It's true that sometimes he (Ballesteros) had certain tics, but he never did it on purpose. ... If anyone thinks that way, well, sorry. But I don't think I've shown any gamesmanship in my career."

http://sport.uk.msn.com/golf/olazabal-dismisses-gamesmanship-talk

[Michael Wharton-Palmer]

I think he crossed the line once or twice, perhaps not always deliberately.
I was lucky enough to spend some time with Seve at Crans Montana in I thik it was 1987, as a college player who had qualified to play in the Ebel Masters.
I was friends with Mark James, Howrad Clark and a few others who shared the same teacher Gavin Christie, and I was introduced to the man.

He was kind and generous with his time, many stories he shared, but on the topic of getting under peoples skin on purpose, he was rather hurt at the thought.
But in the Ryder Cup, I would imagine that level of hurt diminished rather quickly in search of a point.

I hold him in the gighest reagrd.
I saw him again two years later at The Open and he walked twenty yards out of his way to come across and say hello and asked me how college was going...a true gentleman.

[Steve Salmen]

I'd be interested to know what Miguel Angel Martin's thoughts are of Seve.

[David Whitmer]

On War By The Shore, Azinger (and perhaps others...I don't remember) basically said Seve would cough or clear his throat when an opponent was hitting. If that is true (and please note I said "if," as I have no first-hand knowledge), that crosses the line in a big way.

I hope Seve never did that with the intent to disrupt his opponent. That would not be cool.

[Mark Steffey]

On War By The Shore, Azinger (and perhaps others...I don't remember) basically said Seve would cough or clear his throat when an opponent was hitting. If that is true (and please note I said "if," as I have no first-hand knowledge), that crosses the line in a big way.

I hope Seve never did that with the intent to disrupt his opponent. That would not be cool.

at least he didn't cheat like azinger....

[David Whitmer]

On War By The Shore, Azinger (and perhaps others...I don't remember) basically said Seve would cough or clear his throat when an opponent was hitting. If that is true (and please note I said "if," as I have no first-hand knowledge), that crosses the line in a big way.

I hope Seve never did that with the intent to disrupt his opponent. That would not be cool.

at least he didn't cheat like azinger....

Again, IF it's true, in my opinion it is worse than a guy like Azinger who admitted he played a wrong ball and said it was a mistake. And Seve and Olazabal should have brought it up timely, instead of waiting three holes. But I digress...certain acts of gamesmanship is one thing. Intentionally trying to interrupt an opponent, or intentionally breaking the rules, is another. Neither have any place in golf. Seve was too great a champion to do that. He was one of my favorites. I hope his intent was always gentlemanly.

[Tiger_Bernhardt]

I find it hard to believe he would behave in such a childish and disrespectful manner. That far crosses the line of gamesmanship. That is just classless and should not even be discussed without at least a credible rumor.

[Pat Burke]

I never played with him, so never experienced the <cough>
Practiced with him, had lunch with him, he was quiet, but couldn't be nicer

[Michael Tamburrini]

There's no way he coughed during backswings or anything like that.  Can you imagine any American (or any opponent) letting such a thing go without even a comment at the time?  Particularly at Kiawah, when emotions were already high.  There'd have been a major incident if any player had tried that.

[Jack_Marr]

I loved watching Seve play. Always a fan of his, but the Seve stuff at the Ryder Cup was way over the top. People watch too much tv.

[Mike_Clayton]

I played with him more than half a dozen times - and he was fantastic.Mind you I was hardly a threat to beat him. We played a match once at the Epson Grand Prix - 4 and 3 to him without raising a sweat. He did beat ,Michael Allen 8 and 7 the next day though.

A few of us were watched the finish of the 1985 Open when Sandy Lyle won - and Seve walked in and sat down at the table.
He quietly commentated on what was happening over the last four or five holes. It was a pity he never took to television because he would have been brilliant.

You won't find too many non-Americans who played in his time say a bad word about him. The European tour adored him.

[Joe Bausch]

Not gamesmanship, but Lon Hinkle did not like how Seve marked his ball.  This from a 1980 article by Tim Rosaforte (when he had hair!):



The entire article here:

http://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=888&dat=19800811&id=lrhaAAAAIBAJ&sjid=cFoDAAAAIBAJ&pg=6916,2890008

[Mark Steffey]

Not gamesmanship, but Lon Hinkle did not like how Seve marked his ball.  This from a 1980 article by Tim Rosaforte (when he had hair!):

did i find the story missing a detail or two?

[Mike_Clayton]

Joe

The other Spaniard to play the 1979 Ryder Cup was accused to that many times - but I never heard a single player in Europe accuse Seve of mis-marking his ball on the green.

[Jeff Fortson]

Not saying it is true but both Azinger and Chip Beck claim that Seve would clear his throat mid-swing in the Ryder Cup.

[Mark Steffey]

Not saying it is true but both Azinger and Chip Beck claim that Seve would clear his throat mid-swing in the Ryder Cup.

you could say it's true that zinger and beck cheated.

nice move to take this notice away from you, huh?   'oh, we cheated?  no, it was a mistake.. but seve coughed when we swung".

[John Kavanaugh]

Come on people, being a dick is not a gateway to immortality. Bad people die too.

[Sam Morrow]

Wasn't Snead notorious for clearing his throat and things like that?

[Mark Steffey]

Wasn't Snead notorious for clearing his throat and things like that?

snead was notorious for paying all his golf losses with checks, hoping that the 'winner' would keep it for the autograph and not try to cash it and see it bounce

[Gary Slatter]

speak well of the dead!

[Sven Nilsen]

A top ten list of gamemanship in golf (Seve is included):

http://www.hkgolfer.com/features/gamesmanship-top-10-moments?page=0,0

[Sam Morrow]

Who was the legend that Hogan threatened to whoop?