Ryder Cup 2014 - Cenetary Course, Gleneagles. Who has played it?

[Joel_Stewart]

They are not playing the Kings course, but a new course built by Jack Nicklaus.   Has anyone played it?  Thoughts.

[hhuffines]

And the PGA is treating us to Hazeltine the next time its here...

[Bruce Wellmon]

When I was at Gleneagles in 2009, the consensus was skip it.

[Sam Morrow]

And the PGA is treating us to Hazeltine the next time its here...

Hazeltine has given us some entertaining PGA's in recent years.

[Joel_Stewart]

I assume it's built to hold thousands of spectators?  With that said, it does look like a typical American style course which you would think would favor the Americans?

[Jordan Wall]

I assume it's built to hold thousands of spectators?  With that said, it does look like a typical American style course which you would think would favor the Americans?

I thought a 10-6 lead going into Sunday would favor The Americans...

[James Boon]

Here is a photo thread from 2008 of the course
http://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php?PHPSESSID=2b0d8a823bde472e4f75beab177c76d7&topic=35547.0

And here is a thread discussing more recent changes to the 18th
http://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php?PHPSESSID=2b0d8a823bde472e4f75beab177c76d7&topic=50362.0

Since writing the photo thread, my opinion of the reworking and alterations has changed, not from the point of view of the architecture being better or anything, but from the perspective of why the changes were needed? I've realised that pretty much every classic course (not that I'm calling this a classic course) as we see it these days was worked and reworked by several top architects to get to what they are now.

My recollection and feeling is that it was a pretty special property, but the course itself didn't do the land justice. But then as several other recent discussions have touched on, the Ryder Cup course isn't necessarily about its architectural merit.

Cheers,

James

[Alex Miller]

The land does indeed look good, but looking at that photo thread all the greens with the exception of the 13th look fairly flat and mostly uninteresting.

Granted, many things don't show up in a photo that may be there in person, but I am not shocked by James's feeling that the course did not do the land justice.

[David_Tepper]

"With that said, it does look like a typical American style course which you would think would favor the Americans?"

Joel S. -

The Centenary Course at Gleneagles has hosted a Euro Tour event pretty regularly over the past several years. My guess is the Euros already have a far deeper base of "local knowledge" about the course than the American team might ever hope to have.

As I mentioned on one of the threads regarding Medinah, the fact of the matter is that many, if not most, of the courses on the Euro tour are now very similar to a "typical American style course." In addition, many of the Euros are playing a healthy portion of their tournament schedule each year on the US Tour.

Golf at the professional level has become pretty homogenized globally over the past 10-20 years. We have likely reached the point where no type of course would favor one team over the other.

DT

[Matthew Petersen]

And the PGA is treating us to Hazeltine the next time its here...

Wasn't chilly enough in Chicago this week, let's go even further north the next two times!

[Niall C]

As DT says, the European Tour play there every year and indeed its sometimes been the event that they've named the Ryder Cup team at (2010 from memory). That said, the course gets slagged off on the basis that Nicklaus and his team just drove the bulldozers through a beautiful landscape and what they left could be anywhere. Kidd made some changes a few years ago which weren't well received, including by Nicklaus who threatened to spit the dummy. As a consequence they got the great man back and he proceeded to move 45 million tonnes of earth on the 18th hole alone (NB - slight exaggeration but not much)

Interestingly, Darren Clark is one of the courses biggest critics, and he's one of the favourites for the Captains job. Now that would make the pre-RC build up interesting 

Niall

[Wayne_Kozun]

I was at Gleneagles a couple of years ago but I played the Kings and Queens courses as common knowledge seems to be that these are far better than the Centenary Course.

Are they holding it on this course because it can handle more spectators or because economically it makes sense as it would increase demand as people may want to play the course that the pros did?

[David_Tepper]

Wayne K. -

The Kings & Queens courses are too short for the pros. It is a simple as that.

DT

P.S. It is also worth noting that the Euros have used "American style" courses to host several Ryder Cups already. The Belfry and Celtic Manor are as "American style" as you will find. The one advantage the Euros do get in picking Ryder Cup venues is that they usually pick a course that hosts a Euro tour event on a regular/annual basis. The U.S. PGA picks courses that host a major of some sort once a decade or so. The Euros do have much more local knowledge/experience of their Ryder Cup venues than the U.S. team has on their Ryder Cup venues.  

[Matthew Rose]

Think it's funny that the European venues are almost always ones that resemble American courses.

It's irrelevant anyway.... they could play it on a patch of dirt with flags and the Americans would still find a way to lose it.

[Shane Wright]

And the PGA is treating us to Hazeltine the next time its here...

Wasn't chilly enough in Chicago this week, let's go even further north the next two times!

I know I'm not the only one on this board who has lived all over the US.  But speaking for my last ten years of residency, there are few places on earth I'd rather live and be than September/Fall in Minnesota.   Additionally, I believe we have more golfers per capita than anywhere in the U.S.  Minnesota/Hazeltine will be a fine 2016 host.

  

[Marty Bonnar]

Joel,
I've played it. It's definitely in the Top Three Golf Courses at Gleneagles (but only just!)
Haven't seen it since the latest round of Nicklaus 'work'.
Kings and Queens defo too short for the Bubbas of this world.

MB.

[Wayne_Kozun]

Why does length matter in this event?  One of the most interesting holes at Medinah was the 15th which is "too short" to be a par 4 for the pros..

[Jon Wiggett]

Played it twice now and it is okay at best. It would be better played on either the Kings or Queens which are both far superior courses but then the Ryder Cup does seem to be played on pretty average courses in Europe these days.

Jon

[Greg Taylor]

Put me down for another who's played it, and like most on this board I would rate it as mediocre at best (at least before the recent changes).

Our mistake was not taking a buggy. I simply refuse to ride in the UK, and all I can say is that between holes there are some serious walks... get a buggy if you're going to play it...!

[Kris Shreiner]

Greg,

So Jack built a cart course in the Highlands. Guess he just needed more land to rout that masterpiece he crafted up there. By the look of that single photo, he teased a spectacularly dull track out of some pretty epic surroundings. Even if the ground was flattish farmland or valley basin, that where the imagination and craft should surface.

The general read of the GCA comments posted rates it behind the other two. Certainly that's no surprise.

Cheers,
Kris

[Rich Goodale]

I played it 15 years ago, and agree completely with Martin B. and John W.

When you watch it on TV in 2014, the course will look OK and there will be the usual Ryder hysteria, but I think that Medina (as a course--getting back to gca......) has set such a high standard that Gleneagles #3 V2.1 will play like chopped liver.

That being said, the PGA honchos, hangers on and wannabies and the WAGS and the players will be spending a week or so at one of the finest hotels in the world.  Once that is sorted, who cares about the golf?

[Ivan Morris]

Played it 3-years ago before Nicklaus had (yet) another 'go' at it. I found it a modern, boring, slog suitable only for professionals. The Kings & Queens courses are much more enjoyable for amateur golfers like me but, unfortunately, they are too short for the pros. The Ryder Cup is driven by money, money, money. RC2014 would be much more fun to watch if played at Carnoustie, Kingbarns, Muirfield or The Old Course but the insatiable appetite for money disqualifies them. If the 2014 Hyper Cup turns out anything remotely like the Miracle at Medinah - the quality of the golf course won't matter in the slightest. If the main motivation at Gleneagles is repeat business this revamped Nicklaus course won't attract it.  

[Tom Kelly]

I played it a few times back in 2010 and would agree with the above that it is pretty mediocre. The front 9 has a few decent holes on it, I quite liked 5, 7 & 8 though they aren't really anything to write home about. The back nine though is dull with 11 being the only interesting hole in my opinion.

As for the comments on the land I'd say the front 9 land looks very promising, but most of the back nine (12-17) is on a pretty boring 'field'. My understanding is that originally the club wanted to buy the land adjacent to the front nine (where G-West is now) but planning issues stopped them so they had to use the land over the road where the back nine is located. I guess they must be slightly peeved that G-West managed to by-pass the planning problems and build a course on what looks like far better land.

If you do play it, take a cart so you have enough breath left to take in the views.

[Matt MacIver]

Sorry I haven't played it but couldn't help but think....Trump was a few years too late: can you imagine the exposure for his new course with the Ryder Cup?!  Understand his site might be too remote, however....

I've played Kings and it's one of my all-timers, and heard from others on-site that the Centenary was a "typical American" course - and they didn't say it in a good way....

[Terry Lavin]

Looks like the golfing public will be yearning for Medinah after the next two Ryder Cups.