Robert Tyre Jones the Architect?

[Paul Jones]

Bobby Jones has been given credit in the design of 2 of his courses: Augusta National and Peachtree GC.  How much was he involved from the design perspective?  Did he just approve what MacKenzie and RTJ proposed or was he much more involved?

Did he do any design work at Atlanta Athletic Club or East Lake since he was also tied very closes to those clubs?

[Jon Wiggett]

Can't believe this genuine GCA topic has had no replies. I wish I could answer it but all I do know is for ANGC Jones is reported to have hit many shots during the planning and construction. I could not imagine he wouldn't have had a major imput given his knowledge of the game and general intellect.

Jon

[astavrides]

I could not imagine he wouldn't have had a major imput given his knowledge of the game and general intellect.

Jon

...and engineering degree.

[Jim Sherma]

Is there any written record of his input or thoughts regarding architecture? I know he spoke glowingly of the Old Course, but did MacKenzie or Robert Trent Jones ever provide an explicit example of his role in either ANGC or Peachtree.

[Sven Nilsen]

Read The Making of the Masters.  It'll tell you everything you need to know about Jones, MacKenzie and how Augusta was designed.

There's record of Jones having designed Douglas Golf Course in Douglas, GA and working with Perry Maxwell at North Fulton Municipal GC in addition to his work at Augusta. 

Not sure how much he did at Peachtree.  Its clear that he helped find the land for the course, but I'm pretty sure he handed the reigns over to RTJ for the design.

[Jim Sherma]

Read The Making of the Masters.  It'll tell you everything you need to know about Jones, MacKenzie and how Augusta was designed.

There's record of Jones having designed Douglas Golf Course in Douglas, GA and working with Perry Maxwell at North Fulton Municipal GC in addition to his work at Augusta. 

Not sure how much he did at Peachtree.  Its clear that he helped find the land for the course, but I'm pretty sure he handed the reigns over to RTJ for the design.

Sven - that's one I have not gotten hold of yet. I will have to move it up the list. Thanks for the advice.

[Greg Holland]

It is interesting to me that Bobby Jones so admired the Old Course, and sought to emulate it with these two courses.  Yet, both Georgia courses are on quite rolling, hilly terrain, and it is curious that he chose such land for courses in an effort to create the strategy of the Old Course links.

[Jon Wiggett]

It is interesting to me that Bobby Jones so admired the Old Course, and sought to emulate it with these two courses.  Yet, both Georgia courses are on quite rolling, hilly terrain, and it is curious that he chose such land for courses in an effort to create the strategy of the Old Course links.

Greg,

many links courses including TOC are hilly and rolling though often on a different scale but it was really the ground game that Bobby Jones wanted to emulate. As the story goes this was what ANGC was until WWII when they turned it into a cow pasture and it became the model for the modern american golf course

Jon

[Tom_Doak]

Is there any written record of his input or thoughts regarding architecture? I know he spoke glowingly of the Old Course, but did MacKenzie or Robert Trent Jones ever provide an explicit example of his role in either ANGC or Peachtree.

I haven't read the book Sven mentioned, but Jones wrote his thoughts on golf design in his own words in a chapter or two of his second book, GOLF IS MY GAME.  It's among the most well-reasoned and simple explanations of golf architecture I've ever read.  I especially enjoyed his thoughts on the four different ways of rewarding a good tee shot. 

I believe the book is available in reprint from The Classics of Golf.

[Sven Nilsen]

Jim:

The following is copied from the thread earlier this year regarding the changes at ANGC:

"Nine holes in to this history, and the one aspect of the origination of ANGC that stands out the most is how the MacKenzie/Jones collaboration seems to have been the best combination of architect/golfer to have ever undertaken a design project.  The early photographs of the two of them on the course give us a clue as to their working relationship.  MacKenzie as the idea man, Jones as the tester.  This obviously simplifies the relationship, but who better to hit a few "test" shots to practically investigate the merits of a design idea than the best golfer of his era.

The following article from The Augusta Chronicle Masters site goes into a bit more depth regarding the pairing:

http://www.augusta.com/node/99

As Jones was quoted saying, their ideas were "synonymous."  They both shared an appreciation for the playing characteristics of the Scottish classics (whether innate or learned) and attempted to translate that mantra onto the former nursery.  What is missing in the historical record (or at least not yet discovered by this reader) is a memorial of their dialogue.  Perhaps the process was so natural that few words were needed.  From the sounds of things, the two rarely disagreed on design concepts, and when they did the level of respect they had for each other most likely carried the day. 

The pro/archie combo has been duplicated many times over, and perhaps preceded the work at Augusta with different actors.  It seems that often one side of the equation takes the spotlight.  Coore & Crenshaw are an exception to this thought, and perhaps mirror the Alister and Bobby relationship as well as any other duo of this type, both in what they bring to the table and the respectful working relationship that exists between the two. 

What gets lost in the discussions of Azalea's, second cuts of rough and pimento cheese sandwiches is that this course was the result of one of the greatest pairings of golf minds.  It must have been an absolute joy for the golfer turned design "hobbyist" that was Jones to have had the opportunity to walk the ground with MacKenzie, as it would have been a treasured time for the aging architect to share the design process with a player that understood his philosophies.

As coverage of the tournament begins next week, it will be easy to focus on the individual achievements that have taken place on this hallowed ground.  This year, I'll be thinking of golf as a team sport instead."