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Terry Lavin

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Saturday Afternoon Question: Can Europe Claw Its Way Back?
« on: September 29, 2012, 01:54:58 PM »
It looks like this afternoon's matches are going to determine whether Europe will have a shot at retaining the Cup. I'd personally give the visitors a ten percent chance. Anybody have a different vibe?
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Mark Johnson

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Re: Saturday Afternoon Question: Can Europe Claw Its Way Back?
« Reply #1 on: September 29, 2012, 01:56:30 PM »
feels about right.   I think they will get 2.5 or 3 this afternoon which puts them in spitting distance.   Key match will be tiger/stricker.
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Jud_T

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Re: Saturday Afternoon Question: Can Europe Claw Its Way Back?
« Reply #2 on: September 29, 2012, 02:03:22 PM »
Europe has to go 3-1 to even have a chance tomorrow IMO.  Even that probably won't be enough.
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Adrian_Stiff

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Re: Saturday Afternoon Question: Can Europe Claw Its Way Back?
« Reply #3 on: September 29, 2012, 02:52:35 PM »
The bookmakers say you are all spot on. 1-9 for the USA at the moment.
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Terry Lavin

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Re: Saturday Afternoon Question: Can Europe Claw Its Way Back?
« Reply #4 on: September 29, 2012, 02:54:38 PM »
Tiger and Stricker are doing their bit for the visitors. I'm starting to wonder if these two can beat anybody. Just lifeless.
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Nobody ever went broke underestimating the intelligence of the American people.  H.L. Mencken

Joel_Stewart

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Re: Saturday Afternoon Question: Can Europe Claw Its Way Back?
« Reply #5 on: September 29, 2012, 03:22:36 PM »
Quote from: David Cronan on September 29, 2012, 03:04:43 PM
Quote from: Terry Lavin on September 29, 2012, 01:54:58 PM
It looks like this afternoon's matches are going to determine whether Europe will have a shot at retaining the Cup. I'd personally give the visitors a ten percent chance. Anybody have a different vibe?
Three things that I've noted from 320 miles south of where the action is taking place: the Americans made a TON of putts in the first 3 round of matches, Euros made nothing and their seems to be ZERO mojo/excitement/enthusiasm/etc., on the Euro team.

It's all about the putting and Europe has putted terribly.  Garcia looks 10 years past his prime and Molineri is way out of his league.  I also question Jose-Marie pairings and keeping GMac in there.  Poulter is the only one showing much emotion.
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Alex Miller

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Re: Saturday Afternoon Question: Can Europe Claw Its Way Back?
« Reply #6 on: September 29, 2012, 03:37:55 PM »
No. But can Tiger?
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Jud_T

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Re: Saturday Afternoon Question: Can Europe Claw Its Way Back?
« Reply #7 on: September 29, 2012, 03:40:30 PM »
I was shocked to see GMac out there this morning after he hacked it around yesterday afternoon.  IMO both captains are way too deferential to the veterans.  If this Ryder Cup has shown anything it's the rookies and fresh pairings that can get hot and get the crowd excited.
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Golf is a game. We play it. Somewhere along the way we took the fun out of it and charged a premium to be punished.- - Ron Sirak

Alex Miller

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Re: Saturday Afternoon Question: Can Europe Claw Its Way Back?
« Reply #8 on: September 29, 2012, 03:51:45 PM »
Quote from: Jud Tigerman on September 29, 2012, 03:40:30 PM
I was shocked to see GMac out there this morning after he hacked it around yesterday afternoon.  IMO both captains are way too deferential to the veterans.  If this Ryder Cup has shown anything it's the rookies and fresh pairings that can get hot and get the crowd excited.

Even after sitting Tiger and Stricker this morning? I think Love is being the least deferential to vets I've ever seen in a Ryder Cup.
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Michael George

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Re: Saturday Afternoon Question: Can Europe Claw Its Way Back?
« Reply #9 on: September 29, 2012, 03:55:19 PM »
I think there is a chance that Europe goes 3-1 this afternoon.   I think Donald and Garcia beat Woods and Stricker and McIlroy and Poulter come back and win their match.    Key match is Johnson/Kuchar match.  If so, a 2 point lead is not much in singles.

I cannot believe that Bradley and Mickelson are not playing this afternoon.  I know Davis Love determined pre-tournament to sit every guy once to be rested on Sunday, but those 2 guys only played 40 or so total holes as no one got close to them.  You have to play them this afternoon.  Also, Mickelson is just protecting his captain's pre-tournament decision.  He would have played in a minute if they had not already discussed it.

Also, Medinah looks great.  Lot more character than previous tournaments and a lot more fun to watch. 12-15 look really great.


« Last Edit: September 29, 2012, 04:08:26 PM by Michael George »
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Jud_T

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Re: Saturday Afternoon Question: Can Europe Claw Its Way Back?
« Reply #10 on: September 29, 2012, 03:56:13 PM »
Alex,

Agreed sitting them was a good call.  But he did pick Stricker and Furyk; and why not put Bradley out again with Tiger when Stricker's got nothing going on but the rent and Keegan is unstoppable?
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Golf is a game. We play it. Somewhere along the way we took the fun out of it and charged a premium to be punished.- - Ron Sirak

Michael George

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Re: Saturday Afternoon Question: Can Europe Claw Its Way Back?
« Reply #11 on: September 29, 2012, 04:06:14 PM »
Stricker is carrying Tiger this afternoon so far.  They just said that the rest this morning for Tiger and Stricker was determined pre-tournament, as was Mickelson and Bradley. 
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"First come my wife and children.  Next comes my profession--the law. Finally, and never as a life in itself, comes golf" - Bob Jones

Jud_T

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Re: Saturday Afternoon Question: Can Europe Claw Its Way Back?
« Reply #12 on: September 29, 2012, 04:13:19 PM »
Michael,

That's fine but you have to have the flexibility when a guy's as hot as Keegan to call an audible.
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Golf is a game. We play it. Somewhere along the way we took the fun out of it and charged a premium to be punished.- - Ron Sirak

Michael George

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Re: Saturday Afternoon Question: Can Europe Claw Its Way Back?
« Reply #13 on: September 29, 2012, 04:16:36 PM »
Jud - I agree.  I would have put Mickelson and Bradley out again.  They only played 40 or so holes.  Mickelson did not ask for the afternoon off - he just knew that they were not going out and was trying to protect Davis.   If Europe goes 3-1, there will be people second guessing that move.

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"First come my wife and children.  Next comes my profession--the law. Finally, and never as a life in itself, comes golf" - Bob Jones

Michael George

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Re: Saturday Afternoon Question: Can Europe Claw Its Way Back?
« Reply #14 on: September 29, 2012, 04:39:16 PM »
I think the match that would be different if Mickelson and Bradley were playing is the last one, as I think Dufner and Johnson would have sat down.  If they win, I can't second guess Davis.  No way he was sitting Tiger and Stricker all day.

Checking scorecards, Simpson, Stricker and Kuchar are playing by themselves really.  Their partners have not done anything for them.
« Last Edit: September 29, 2012, 04:43:32 PM by Michael George »
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"First come my wife and children.  Next comes my profession--the law. Finally, and never as a life in itself, comes golf" - Bob Jones

Mark Pearce

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Re: Saturday Afternoon Question: Can Europe Claw Its Way Back?
« Reply #15 on: September 29, 2012, 07:54:04 PM »
Quote from: David Cronan on September 29, 2012, 04:50:53 PM
Colsaerts
Lawrie
Rose
Molinari
McIlroy
Poulter

Between these 6 players, in today's fourball, they have a TOTAL of 8 birdies in 62 holes played.
And then McIlroy and Poulter finish with 6 in a row!  Aside from Colsaerts yesterday and Poulter this afternoon, the European team simply hasn't putted well enough, whilst several of the US team have holed miles of putts.  It will take a miracle for Europe to contend tomorrow and if they do they will have Poulter's finish this afternoon to thank.
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Jud_T

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Re: Saturday Afternoon Question: Can Europe Claw Its Way Back?
« Reply #16 on: September 29, 2012, 08:02:02 PM »
They'll have to pull off a Brookline.  Might be possible if they were on home soil, but not in our town.
« Last Edit: September 29, 2012, 09:43:42 PM by Jud Tigerman »
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Golf is a game. We play it. Somewhere along the way we took the fun out of it and charged a premium to be punished.- - Ron Sirak

Bob_Huntley

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Re: Saturday Afternoon Question: Can Europe Claw Its Way Back?
« Reply #17 on: September 29, 2012, 08:10:04 PM »

Betting on Europe to win this thing is akin to buying stock in Lehman Bros.

Bob
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Howard Riefs

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Re: Saturday Afternoon Question: Can Europe Claw Its Way Back?
« Reply #18 on: September 29, 2012, 09:23:53 PM »
Singles match-ups.... Europe front-loads as expected. DLIII matches with a few big guns. Look forward to Keegan v. Rory.


Bubba v Luke
Webb v Poulter
Keegan v Rory
Phil v Rose
Sneds v Lawrie
DJ v Colsaerts
Zach v GMac
Furyk v Sergio
Dufner v Hanson
Kuchar v Westwood
Stricker v Kaymer
Tiger v Molinari

http://t.co/D2jBxTCk
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Jud_T

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Re: Saturday Afternoon Question: Can Europe Claw Its Way Back?
« Reply #19 on: September 29, 2012, 09:47:12 PM »
Actually they don't have to pull off a Brookline,  There we needed 8 1/2 points to win back the cup, The Euros just need 8 to retain it.  Their only hope is to reel off 3 or 4 wins and keep the crowd out of it.  One thing is certain,  if they do pull off the Miracle at Medinah,  sitting Bradley will be seen as one of the dumbest decisions ever.
« Last Edit: September 29, 2012, 11:02:40 PM by Jud Tigerman »
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Golf is a game. We play it. Somewhere along the way we took the fun out of it and charged a premium to be punished.- - Ron Sirak

Tim Pitner

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Re: Saturday Afternoon Question: Can Europe Claw Its Way Back?
« Reply #20 on: September 29, 2012, 10:18:21 PM »
I don't see a European comeback on Sunday.  The USA is playing too well and too many European players aren't playing well at all.  Honestly, I thought the European team was overrated going in--players like Hanson, Molinari and Lawrie are solid players but they don't inspire fear in anyone.  Kaymer has been out of form for some time and even some of Europe's best players (Westwood and McDowell mainly) haven't played well.  The USA has hit the ball much better--the old saw about making more putts doesn't tell the story, just as it really didn't explain why Europe did well in the Ryder Cup in the past, despite the many commentators who say so. 

With that said, give credit to the last two European groups on Saturday afternoon who won their matches and at least gave the Europeans a slim chance.  Who knows, maybe players like Hanson, Molinari and Kaymer will play better in their singles matches than they did in their team matches--Jose Maria never found teams that worked for these guys.  Of course, the other Euros have to virtually run the table to even get to these gentlemen in the lineup. 
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Phil McDade

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Re: Saturday Afternoon Question: Can Europe Claw Its Way Back?
« Reply #21 on: September 29, 2012, 11:06:01 PM »
You can argue Euro has a shot at sweeping the first three matches -- Bubba can be (and has been, somewhat, so far) streaky, and Donald had a great afternoon. Poulter is a stud, and Bradley might be favored against anyone save for Poulter or McIlroy, and he got one of those guys. So it's not inconceivable. And Molinari and Kaymer anchoring the line-up has them going up against the only point-less pair of US players (and Tiger continues his career-long stretch of somehow dodging every top Euro player while running up a solid RC record in singles).

To me, the really tough matches for Euro are those guys going up against the Johnson brothers, Dufner  and Kuchar, all of whom have played really well. Oddly, a key match if Euro sweeps early could be Lawrie-Snedeker -- few people remember that Lawrie won his singles match in the white-hot craziness of Brookline in 1999, so he's faced this before. And Snedeker, in singles, hasn't.

I'd say odds 3-1 that US wins; Euro does have a shot. But I don't expect it.
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Martin Toal

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Re: Saturday Afternoon Question: Can Europe Claw Its Way Back?
« Reply #22 on: September 30, 2012, 04:18:53 AM »
It would be a remarkable and unprecedented comeback now to get 8 points out of 12. It isn't like the Europe side have all been playing well and just didn't get the breaks. Some of them have been playing poorly and I rather doubt they will all reverse that trend today.

I just hope we don't see a payback of the Oakland Hills 2004 scoreline.
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Jud_T

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Re: Saturday Afternoon Question: Can Europe Claw Its Way Back?
« Reply #23 on: September 30, 2012, 08:43:35 AM »
First 3 matches are the key.  Arguably you could see Donald beating Watson and Poulter taking down Simpson.  Then comes the marquee match, Bradley vs. McIlroy.  It is essential for Rory to take down the new U.S. star.  Possibly the biggest test of Rory's reign as world #1 thus far.  So far he hasn't been responding well this week to the pressure.  That will be a very interesting match.  I know it's a bit of a stretch, but image Molinari taking down Tiger to win the cup.  I hope the Euros at least make it interesting in those first matches.
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Golf is a game. We play it. Somewhere along the way we took the fun out of it and charged a premium to be punished.- - Ron Sirak

Rich Goodale

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Re: Saturday Afternoon Question: Can Europe Claw Its Way Back?
« Reply #24 on: September 30, 2012, 09:10:04 AM »
Quote from: Martin Toal on September 30, 2012, 04:18:53 AM
It would be a remarkable and unprecedented comeback now to get 8 points out of 12. It isn't like the Europe side have all been playing well and just didn't get the breaks. Some of them have been playing poorly and I rather doubt they will all reverse that trend today.

I just hope we don't see a payback of the Oakland Hills 2004 scoreline.

How about getting 8 1/2 points out of 12 to win?  Not unprecedented, unless you don't count Brookline 1999 as a real Ryder Cup, or maybe you just want to forget..... :)
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