What's Your Favorite Ryder Cup Venue?

[Ivan Morris]

From my perspective the Ryder Cup has always been compulsive TV viewing beginning with that great drawn match at Birkdale in 1969, which I watched in black and white. Team match play golf is fantastic - especially whenever there is a close contest - so much going on - so many swings and roundabouts. The 1991 War By The Shore may, arguably, have been the greatest Ryder Cup because Kiawah facilitated so many extraordinary things to happen beginning with the spectators bonding while being being bussed onto the island from Charleston; Monty saving his match from being 4 down with 4 to go; Langer missing THAT putt and Captain Stockton finding himself in the ocean with the trophy. If Medinah can match those fireworks, it will be something special to remember too. What's your favorite Ryder Cup venue and why?

[Adrian_Stiff]

The Belfry for me. Ryder Cups were pretty much non events until 1981, we did well in 1983 then I remember when we won in 1985 and it was the first time in 28 years, it was the rebirth of the Ryder Cup really. The Belfry hosted it 4 times, nicely located in the centre of the country with good roads, viewing was good, the Ryder Cup was about a golf match so the architecture is very secondary, that aside the one thing TB has is some great swing holes, half par holes that are great for match play. All the Belfry RCups were close to so I suppose everything gets amplied 4 times.

[Ivan Morris]

That's a good point about 'half-par' holes, Adrian! That's why Medinah's par 3.5, 15th might turn out to be a vital, swing hole this weekend irrespective of whether it's a good hole or not. 

[Jud_T]

The Country Club.  Why?  Because it was the site of the most exciting sporting event I've seen since the USA upset Russia in Olympic hockey.  My favorite potential Ryder Cup site is St. Andrews.  Imagine Rory or Tiger having to get up and down on 17 to extend a critical singles match.  Pretty uninspiring future architecturally, given the available options:

http://www.golf.com/photos/future-ryder-cup-venues/medinah-golf-club

[Gene Greco]

I'm with Ivan:

Ocean Course at Kiawah

[Josh Tarble]

I'd love to see it at a "non-championship" type venue...somewhere that really showcases the match play format.  I know logistics play as much as a factor as anything though.

Looking back through the years, there have been some fantastic venues:  Greenbrier, Muirfield, The Ocean Course.

[Ivan Morris]

The awful Belfry is sufficient proof that in match play the course doesn't matter as much as the way it is set up. I played at Medinah 15-years ago. I thought it was the hardest course I had ever played (at the time) but look at it today for the 39th Ryder Cup - half of its teeth drawn! It shows you how much the Ryder Cup has changed when the American captain makes the course 'easy' to help his team beat a bunch of wimpy Europeans. Imagine Mr. Hogan doing that!   

[PCCraig]

It has to be either the Ocean Course or The Country Club of the "modern" Ryder Cups.

Jud, I agree, I'd love to see them host a Ryder Cup at St. Andrews. But I'm afraid we'll never see it as the event has become too large of a production and too much about the $$$.

[jonathan_becker]

I would have no problem if Kiawah hosted the event every time in America.

[Ivan Morris]

Sadly, the Ryder Cup is all about making money for the PGAs. If the town of St. Andrew's (or Scotland) was prepared to stump up the obscene asking price no stumbling blocks to the Hyper Cup going to Fife would remain. It would be a magnificent venue.....I'd like to see the matches going to Denmark or Sweden but would there be enough daylight hours in late September? Paris is going to be fantastic in 2018 - The National is a superb, risk and reward, match play course! Lee Westwood and Phil Mickelson could be the opposing captains if they haven't done it already by then.     

[Bill_McBride]

It has to be either the Ocean Course or The Country Club of the "modern" Ryder Cups.

Jud, I agree, I'd love to see them host a Ryder Cup at St. Andrews. But I'm afraid we'll never see it as the event has become too large of a production and too much about the $$$.

Why's that, Pat?  The Open Championship is a huge production and St Andrews does a great job every five years.  Only 24 players in the Ryder acupuncture, piece of cake.   (I was at the 2005 Open at St Andrews and saw just how smoothly the R&A run the event.)

[Adrian_Stiff]

Bill - The European Ryder Cup venues go to courses that are willing to pay a huge amount (up to $80,000,000) to host. The principal is that this money is a promotional excercise to get the club a higher profile....... Its not really ever going to go to an 'oldie' again until someone is not prepared to pay. I suspect in the 2020s Eastern European countries will be pitching for the pot.

Right or Wrong? I think they are probably doing it right, the architectural course qualities really dont seem to matter, the Ryder Cup is just so different and all the focus is away from what 'we' like ...its just shot v shot

[Tiger_Bernhardt]

That is the rub on the Ryder Cup. The venues do not live up to the event. Can you imagine TOC, Muirfield, RSG, Pebble Beach, Shinny etc.

[Mark Bourgeois]

I'll say Ganton and Walton Heath. Just great match play courses

[Tim Gavrich]

I'm going with Brookline, because watching the 1999 Ryder Cup is when I became a lifelong golfer. If I ever get to play the course, it'll be a near-mystical experience.

I will add that I think the setup of Medinah this week has been absolutely phenomenal.

[hhuffines]

I'm sure it'll be awhile but they should return to Pinehurst #2...

[Joe_Tucholski]

I'm sure it'll be awhile but they should return to Pinehurst #2...

I thought the following was an interesting story relating to the last Ryder Cup at Pinehurst.

http://pinehurstresort.wordpress.com/2012/09/27/1951-ryder-cup-at-pinehurst-in-skip-alexanders-hands/

[Martin Toal]

The European venues have been rather poor for some years - Belfry, Celtic Manor, K Club a bit better but not much, and PGA Centenary at Gleneagles doesn't seem destined to buck the trend. Valderrama is something of an exception.

The US courses, Kiawah aside, have not been too inspiring either in recent years. Brookline is always tainted, in European eyes, not by the charging on the green, but the partisan hostility and unacceptable behaviour of the mob and some of the marshals whose behaviour was shocking and should not have been tolerated.

[Niall C]

As Adrian says the architecture is to an extent is secondary. However taking up Mark B's point about great matchplay venues, I'm not sure I know what that is. My first stab at a definition for a matchplay course would be one where recovery shots were possible such that the holes not finished until the final putt. But then you have the 10th at the Belfry and also the short par 4 at this years venue with the water right of the green where both Steve Stricker and Lee Westwood went in the water and effectively put themselves out the hole.

All in all, I'm not sure I know what constitutes a great matchplay course.

Niall

[Jud_T]

Niall,

A great matchplay course IMO is one with a lot of variance in potential outcomes but may not be "fair" to the scorecard and pencil medal play set.  Rub of the green, half par holes, wind, firm/fast etc.  Where a shot that is too aggressive or slightly off line may lead to a big number, but where low numbers are also possible.  Holes where you can make eagle or double and the difference may turn on one shot.  I'd love to see the Ryder Cup contested, for instance, at Bandon.  High winds, a different course each day, guys taking risks, getting eagles, birdies and X's.  Balls bounding into cavernous bunkers that were more than a 1/2 stroke penalty.  Of course it'll never happen.

[Mark Bourgeois]

Niall

As I see it, holes and a rhythm to the holes where the goler is always speeding up or slowing down: variety.  As for the holes themselves, beyond the obvious (half-par) holes, "decider" holes where bogey/double is as likely as birdie/eagle.  As a final separator, a long par 3 for he 17th.

Let's be realistic: Ganton just blows away so many courses by these criteria that we shouldn't embarrass other courses with comparisons.

[Wayne_Kozun]

....I'd like to see the matches going to Denmark or Sweden but would there be enough daylight hours in late September?   

Denmark and southern Sweden are the same latitude as Scotland.

[Ivan Morris]

Because the sun travels from east to west, time zones and longitude affect daylight as well as latitude. We get 20-minutes more daylight at Lahinch in the west of Ireland than they get at Portmarnock in the east. There might not be enough daylight in Scotland in late September either! Many thanks to Joe Tucholski for putting up that lovely piece about Skip Alexander - an old hero and friend of mine during my Eckerd College days. I used to play regularly with Skip at Lakewood CC. He was a great mentor and teacher. Jack Nicklaus was sent to him by Jack Grout for a 'second opinion' when the bear cub was 14-years old. The word came back: Leave the kid alone - he's got it! One unforgettable day, at Lakewood, after I had punched three, quail-high, strokes through the wind onto the par-5, 6th green. Skip glided up in his cart and chuckled: I got me a player! (we were partners in a money game.) There he goes, the Irishman always in a hurry. Those Irish like to play golf that way - fast - and leaning into the golf course while they do it! I'm glad that Skip is missed and still spoken about. Only for that plane accident, he'd be right up there in the all-time HOF. Sticking to the point - Medinah is turning out to be quite the match play test - Davis Love did his homework - that's for sure.   

[Mark Bourgeois]

Ivan, don't you mean at equal latitudes but different longitudes the day's length is identical (the sun's daily traverse is on the same path) but local sunrise/sunset times vary?

[Ivan Morris]

Not sure what I mean but it happens..........the sun goes down later in Lahinch than it does in Portmarnock and even later still than in the East of Scotland - in the same Greenwich Time Zone.