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Patrick_Mucci

Ships ahoy !
« on: September 25, 2012, 11:44:03 PM »
Friars Head, Sebonack and Bandon are some of the newer golf courses that enjoy incredible water front sites.

Are there anymore out there or have we seen the last of the great courses built on very large bodies of water ?

If so, will this increase the stock of those course on the water ?

Sam Morrow

Re: Ships ahoy !
« Reply #1 on: September 25, 2012, 11:47:58 PM »
What about Cabot? There will still be waterfront courses, I think we are seeing a movement where that is more in vogue. I think we are lucky to be alive right now.

Rich Goodale

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Ships ahoy !
« Reply #2 on: September 26, 2012, 04:28:33 AM »
Castle Stuart blows away Friars Head and any of the courses at Bandon vis a vis water views (haven't been to Sebonack).  So does Kingsbarns.
Life is good.

Any afterlife is unlikely and/or dodgy.

Jean-Paul Parodi

Tommy Williamsen

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Ships ahoy !
« Reply #3 on: September 26, 2012, 04:48:15 AM »
There are so many sites that spectacular courses cold be built. Because I have torn a muscle a dn can't play golf while I am in Devon, England, I have had a chance to walk the coast path. Each day I have walked a different portion of the path.  The courses would be more download and not links but how special they could be.  One of there elms I see is permitting.  For years I have heard that "this is the last links that will be permitted to be built in Ireland.". Then they build one.

It is difficult to beat a seaside course.  How many can be built is the unaswered question.
,aybe some architects could shed more light on that.
Where there is no love, put love; there you will find love.
St. John of the Cross

"Deep within your soul-space is a magnificent cathedral where you are sweet beyond telling." Rumi

Tom_Doak

  • Karma: +3/-1
Re: Ships ahoy !
« Reply #4 on: September 26, 2012, 06:13:10 AM »
Waterfront courses are more likely to be built outside the U.S. and Europe than inside now, because of permitting issues.  In the western countries, there are just too many people living along the coast who want to preserve open space instead of see it developed for golf.  I can't imagine anyone getting permits to build along the California coast anymore, or in the Hamptons, or in Florida.  But you haven't seen the last course built along the coast in Oregon yet, or in British Columbia, or (hopefully) in Michigan and Wisconsin along the lakeshore.

On the other hand, we are just starting work on an oceanfront course in New Zealand, and after that we'll have one to build in China, and I've looked at two more oceanfront sites recently in other countries.  It is good to have the reputation of being the right guy to call if someone has an oceanfront site!

Eric Smith

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Ships ahoy !
« Reply #5 on: September 26, 2012, 07:30:32 AM »
Another couple of Scottish moderns, Renaissance and Machrihanish Dunes, offer fantastic water views as well.

Bill_McBride

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Ships ahoy !
« Reply #6 on: September 26, 2012, 08:50:03 AM »
Friars Head, Sebonack and Bandon are some of the newer golf courses that enjoy incredible water front sites.

Are there anymore out there or have we seen the last of the great courses built on very large bodies of water ?

If so, will this increase the stock of those course on the water ?

There is water near by Friars Head, but I didn't get the waterside feeling you get at Pebble or Bandon.  Too many trees blocking the view, and half the holes down below.

By contrast, you can see the open sea from every hole at Royal Porthcawl!

EDIT:  The clubhouse hadn't been built when I played Friars Head, most likely great views of the Sound from there. 
« Last Edit: September 26, 2012, 08:56:09 AM by Bill_McBride »

PCCraig

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Ships ahoy !
« Reply #7 on: September 26, 2012, 08:53:13 AM »
Take a drive around the Great Lakes sometime, Patrick. For the most part, you'll find a whole lot of open land on the coasts of some pretty large bodies of water.
H.P.S.

Mark Pearce

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Ships ahoy !
« Reply #8 on: September 26, 2012, 09:04:37 AM »
Some spectacular views of the North Sea from Crail Craighead, too.
In June I will be riding the first three stages of this year's Tour de France route for charity.  630km (394 miles) in three days, with 7800m (25,600 feet) of climbing for the William Wates Memorial Trust (https://rideleloop.org/the-charity/) which supports underprivileged young people.

Bill_McBride

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Ships ahoy !
« Reply #9 on: September 26, 2012, 09:23:12 AM »
Some spectacular views of the North Sea from Crail Craighead, too.

And the Balcomie too, where it's more in play!

Matthew Essig

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Ships ahoy !
« Reply #10 on: September 26, 2012, 09:48:12 AM »
There are a ton of courses being built around the Great Lakes.

Add Chambers Bay to the list of new courses with incredible water-front (depending on your definition) sites.
"Good GCA should offer an interesting golfing challenge to the golfer not a difficult golfing challenge." Jon Wiggett

Mark Pearce

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Ships ahoy !
« Reply #11 on: September 26, 2012, 10:04:21 AM »
Some spectacular views of the North Sea from Crail Craighead, too.

And the Balcomie too, where it's more in play!
Indeed.  However, Craighead is only 14 years old, whereas Balcomie is over 100 years old!
In June I will be riding the first three stages of this year's Tour de France route for charity.  630km (394 miles) in three days, with 7800m (25,600 feet) of climbing for the William Wates Memorial Trust (https://rideleloop.org/the-charity/) which supports underprivileged young people.

David Cronheim

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Ships ahoy !
« Reply #12 on: September 26, 2012, 10:12:04 AM »
In many regards, isn't the trend towards oceanfront sites a move back towards the historical genesis of the game. Golf was meant to be played near the seaside where long views abound and the wind creates havoc.
Check out my golf law blog - Tee, Esq.

Kalen Braley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Ships ahoy !
« Reply #13 on: September 26, 2012, 02:31:32 PM »
I guess Chambers Bay is chopped liver cause its only next to the sound!!   ::)

Mark_Rowlinson

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Ships ahoy !
« Reply #14 on: September 26, 2012, 03:04:58 PM »
Actually you can be very lucky to see the sea from many of our old links. The old linksland was very often not beside the beach but between the dunes and agricultural land. Richard Goodale once corrected me pointing out that you cannot actually see the sea from TOC (you can see the Eden Estuary, of course). R Lytham is landlocked, there's a minimal view of the sea from R Birkdale up around the 12th green. I don't think (but don't quote me) that you can see the sea from Southport and Ainsdale. You certainly cannot see it from Prestatyn. I think you have to look at exactly the right moment to see the sea at Harlech, and it's not a prominent feature of Aberdovey. Very often courses have to be protected by a high sea wall. Indeed some of the best sea views are from courses that are not links, such as Maesdu which has a stunning view along the north coast of Wales and the mountains of Snowdonia from its elevated, slightly inland position.

Erosion is a threat at some courses and has caused big problems at Sheringham and Royal West Norfolk, and will continue to do so I presume as there are strong, destructive currents running along the East Anglian coast. Think of the villages and churches that have disappeared. Erosion threatened Ballybunion and they seem to have thrived on it! Formby, comes to mind.

I don't suppose there will be many more minor courses built by the sea in the UK - Bude or Rhyl, for instance, are examples from another century. Any that are built are likely to be part of a big development, such as Trump Scotland or Castle Stuart. In which case, the architect will likely be all out to maximise the visual impact of the project. I expect that any new developments will make great play on infinity greens and grand seascapes. But I will at some point post a few pictures of the sea holes at Hartlepool. It's an old club (100+ years) and has had a very complicated history in terms of the land that it has occupied, but it has a couple of holes which are the sort of thing that would make the glossy magazines if the rest of the course were not so girt about by industry and a railway embankment. I think you could also take some spectacular seaside golf photos at Thurlestone in Devon. Some holes are spectacularly situated. Unfortunately it's not a great golf course. Good fun, though!


 

Patrick_Mucci

Re: Ships ahoy !
« Reply #15 on: September 26, 2012, 03:19:58 PM »

I guess Chambers Bay is chopped liver cause its only next to the sound!!   ::)

Kalen,

I never played Chambers Bay, is it the equal of Bandon, Sebonack and Friars Head ?

When I cited those courses, I should have mentioned that the thread was focused on the U.S.


Jeff Taylor

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Ships ahoy !
« Reply #16 on: September 26, 2012, 03:23:47 PM »
Plenty of places where land meets water. Too early to toll the bell just yet.

Scott Warren

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Ships ahoy !
« Reply #17 on: September 26, 2012, 10:07:12 PM »
Barnbougle Dunes
Barnbougle Lost Farm
Cape Kidnappers
Kauri Cliffs
The Cut
Magenta Shores
Castle Stuart
Renaissance
Craighead
Dundonald
Old Head
Doonbeg
Thracian Cliffs
Praia d'el Rey

Yeah, Pat, there's a few others out there, and here's hoping there are still more to come.

You need to look into getting one of these! ;D
« Last Edit: September 26, 2012, 10:21:38 PM by Scott Warren »

Patrick_Mucci

Re: Ships ahoy !
« Reply #18 on: September 26, 2012, 10:21:03 PM »
Scott,

Reread reply # 15.

Scott Warren

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Ships ahoy !
« Reply #19 on: September 26, 2012, 10:23:17 PM »
Hadn't read it when I posted, Pat. Of course I should have assumed that qualifier...

Bill Gayne

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Ships ahoy !
« Reply #20 on: September 26, 2012, 10:44:28 PM »
There's probably opportunities in high density urban centers of the North East with land that provide environmental remediation. I think Liberty National falls into this category.

Patrick_Mucci

Re: Ships ahoy !
« Reply #21 on: September 26, 2012, 10:53:04 PM »
There's probably opportunities in high density urban centers of the North East with land that provide environmental remediation. I think Liberty National falls into this category.

Bill,

That's a good point.

I wonder how many sites like Liberty exist on large bodies of water. ?

Mark Pearce

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Ships ahoy !
« Reply #22 on: September 27, 2012, 03:47:17 AM »
Hadn't read it when I posted, Pat. Of course I should have assumed that qualifier...
After all, why would anyone be interested in golf and its development outside the home of golf...
In June I will be riding the first three stages of this year's Tour de France route for charity.  630km (394 miles) in three days, with 7800m (25,600 feet) of climbing for the William Wates Memorial Trust (https://rideleloop.org/the-charity/) which supports underprivileged young people.

Patrick_Mucci

Re: Ships ahoy !
« Reply #23 on: September 27, 2012, 07:36:19 AM »
Mark,

Feel free to start threads about golf in areas that you're unfamiliar with.

Lack of familiarity seems to be your forte

Mark Chaplin

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Ships ahoy !
« Reply #24 on: September 27, 2012, 09:16:08 AM »
Pat there is 356,000km of ocean shoreline in the world and just under 20,000 of it is in the USA so the US restriction does stifle the debate on an international website.
Cave Nil Vino