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Steve Lang

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Is it the Ball, Driver, Course Conditioning, Physical Workouts?
« Reply #25 on: July 09, 2003, 08:26:51 PM »
Here’s my table of driving distance percentile rankings derived from stats available on PGATOUR.COM

Something’s sure happening in 2003, akin to the 2000-2001 jump in stats.. its obvious when you graph the full distribution but this table simplifies it adequately.  Around 200 players, with an average 25 miles of "driving" recorded in stats for each.

Year   count   p.90   p.75   p.50   p.25
1999   192   280.9   276.8   271.9   267.5
2000   195   283.2   277.6   273.2   268.4
2001   194   288.4   283.7   279.5   274.8
2002   202   289.4   284.7   280.0   274.8
2003   187   293.9   290.0   283.5   277.3
     
Differences in yds, between years        
1999-2000   2.3   0.7   1.3   0.9
2000-2001   5.3   6.1   6.3   6.4
2001-2002   1.0   0.9   0.5   0.1
2002-2003   4.5   5.4   3.5   2.4
           
Differences in yds, % between years  
1999-2000   0.8%   0.3%   0.5%   0.3%
2000-2001   1.9%   2.2%   2.3%   2.4%
2001-2002   0.3%   0.3%   0.2%   0.0%
2002-2003   1.6%   1.9%   1.3%   0.9%


My vote:

85% club-ball tuning with launch monitor (did it a year ago to get re-fitted after 5 years) for carry and/or roll

15% physical training (with pro and electronic/video/computer aids)

10% Ball

-10% Course wetness, less roll
Inverness (Toledo, OH) cathedral clock inscription: "God measures men by what they are. Not what they in wealth possess.  That vibrant message chimes afar.
The voice of Inverness"

Patrick_Mucci

Re:Is it the Ball, Driver, Course Conditioning, Physical Workouts?
« Reply #26 on: July 09, 2003, 09:05:05 PM »
Jim H,

So for 40 years Nicklaus played Pebble when it was wet, then one year he played it under dry conditions, and that was the reason he was able to reach # 18 in 2 ?

tonyt

Re:Is it the Ball, Driver, Course Conditioning, Physical Workouts?
« Reply #27 on: July 10, 2003, 01:12:34 AM »
Jim H,

On one particular point, you are extremely mistaken.

When 8-10 touring pros grab a box each of ProV1 and Prov1x balls, and hit their 24 drives, and then repeat the exercise a few months later, only then to join a further research group on the same subject, they can make a lot more reasonable claims than you would concede.

Additionally, their consistency of distance with each club allows them an excellent opportunity to compare. Among these players is one wh is doing fine in Australasia and playing moderately well on the Nationwide Tour.

Each time Titleist has released a new ball, he hits a club less into a number of holes at his old home club in Sydney. Over the past ten years, he has gone from being a super fit 25 year old to being a 35 year old father of two with less care to diet and no longer a fitness regime. He hits 3-4 clubs less in to a number of holes over that time.

I couldn't agree with you more, that many ambit or one off claims of added distance are made regarding new equipment. My apology to you is in neglecting to advise that I wouldn't bring such claims to this forum. The ones I will bring, I'll make sure are very correct first.

And Jim, at the end of the day, when I add up all these minor 5 and 10 yard claims over a decade or more, one thing holds true. UNDENIABLY TRUE.

I carry a fairway bunker with a 4 iron in winter (ok 2-3 iron with 80s lofts), that I could barely run it into on firm fairways with a driver in summer in the past. And I don't have nearly as much physical strength or fitness that I had then. Give it a few yards for my more modern wide swing without right elbow tucked in, and the rest to the gear I'm using.

With such crazy differences, you must only concede that many of these ambit claims, whilst untested, are of course quite true.

herrstein

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Is it the Ball, Driver, Course Conditioning, Physical Workouts?
« Reply #28 on: July 10, 2003, 07:22:01 PM »
Guys:

I curious whether any other slowly aging golfers have  recently tried out their old persimmon drivers to confirm a serious (30-40 yard) loss of distance?

Also, does anyone feel that their greatest loss of distance has come with irons rather than with the driver?



I have.
I have done some pretty externsive testing with my old equipment, which I have kept in great shape, and even some old Pro Trajectory balls (prior to the Tour Balata- I have hit them and the Professional too) which I have svaed in humidity and temperature controlled room (with my guitars).
I have lost 50 yards from my early 30's using the old equipment. I am now 46, still a scratch handicap, and in good physical condition. With the new equipment I am about where I used to be, maybe a tad shorter. In my early thirties I never played with anyone that I really believed could hit it farther than I did until D.J. Nelson came along as a teen (he is documented to be longer than Tiger or Kuehne). These kids today are hitting it A LOT farther than I do now.
I hit my 7 iron 165 yards now. I hit the old clubs, Mizuno MP-14 (I hit the old MP-9s this weekend, same distance.)- same clubs, different ball. I used to hit a Pro Trajectory 165 to 170. I can't quite get 170 out of a 7 iron anymore.
But the driver I hit almost as far. (Titleist 975VJS, not the newest one, with a Harrison 2.5 low launch shaft, 44 inches)
I can't hit my Mizuno Forged 15 degree 3 wood as far as I used to hit the ProTraj with a SeaIsland Ray Cutright persimmon, or as far as tmy old Byron Nelson 1948 Macgregor 3 wood.
So I say, the ball number one, and the shafts/clubheads number two. I was in phenomenal shape in my early thirties, but I'm in good shape now. The technology has enabled me to hit 300 yard drives still- even though I have lost the strength it took to do that 12 years ago.

One of the big reasons people hit their irons a different distance these days is that they have crept the lofts down. Some pitching wedges are 47 degrees! The 9 iron in my old Palmer is weaker than that at 48 degrees!
Gap wedges were created out the void left by what used to be a pitching wedge.
Marketing.

Patrick_Mucci

Re:Is it the Ball, Driver, Course Conditioning, Physical Workouts?
« Reply #29 on: July 10, 2003, 08:21:46 PM »
herstein,

You think that Pro Traj and Tour Balata balls are old ?

You're younger than I thought.

Try your experiment with the Blue Max, MacGregor ball or some REALLY old Titleists.

herrstein

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Is it the Ball, Driver, Course Conditioning, Physical Workouts?
« Reply #30 on: July 10, 2003, 10:39:13 PM »
herstein,

You think that Pro Traj and Tour Balata balls are old ?

You're younger than I thought.

Try your experiment with the Blue Max, MacGregor ball or some REALLY old Titleists.
Pat,

I do feel young! I just don't have any of those really old balls... I didn't start playing until I was 26. I played Pinnacles until I was 28... that's 18 years ago...I vaguely remember starting out with some Titleist balatas of some sort- they came in "new" trajectory configurations... but I can't remember what they called them then. About the time I played the ProTraj balls that I still have, I played also with the first Maxfli DDH balatas, which I loved, and a balata ball that had the Jack Nicklaus signature on it.
I have a few of those really old balls, but they have either lost compression, are cut to ribbons, or are just to painful to see how weak I have become. I am a bit of a slob now, but when I was 28, I was REALLY a slob!
Even the Professional doesn't do what these ProV's will do.
I haven't noticed much distance difference in the ProV1 and the Prov1x.
I did play a round with the Nike Tour Accuracy the other day, and I did notice a loss of distance with that ball from the ProV's.