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Kalen Braley

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Ron Garl Courses
« on: October 02, 2015, 04:48:03 PM »
hey All,
 
I'm playing a course next weekend which is a Ron Garl design.  I've played it a few times before and a few holes have some flashes of brilliance, with some really neat shots to be played...Yet some of the other holes on the course range between pedestrian and just downright awful.
 
I was curious if anyone has played any of his work that would be treehouse worthy/interesting.
 
P.S. Based on a quick web search, it looks like most of what he's done/remodeled is in Florida.
 
 
Thanks,

Rees Milikin

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Ron Garl Courses
« Reply #1 on: October 02, 2015, 06:00:33 PM »
I have played Victoria Hills, which is about 25 minutes NE of Orlando.  Its one of the few places I really enjoy playing down here.  The thing that I really enjoy about VH are the par 4's, the par 3's are fine, both nothing that good, and the par 5's leave a lot to be desired. 

Where is this course you are going to play?

Kalen Braley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Ron Garl Courses
« Reply #2 on: October 02, 2015, 06:14:59 PM »
Its in Utah...his only course in this area.
 
It goes thru a housing project and a few holes are pretty interesting, but its pretty spread out, it'd be a tough walk.
 
He's got this really neat par 5 that looks like it was pulled out of Ireland somewhere, an interesting tee shot thru some  high mounds and cross bunkers, and the green is tucked in between two high mounds that are 20-25 tall, and set at an angle to the fairway so its only partially open in the front.  Makes for some interesting shots...
 
Also a few blind tee shots too....

Daniel Jones

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Ron Garl Courses
« Reply #3 on: October 02, 2015, 06:24:48 PM »
He was the designer for two courses in Ocala. The first being Golden Ocala and its collection of replica holes. The other being the city's 2nd municipal course, Pine Oaks. That project turned into a nightmare with multiple lawsuits on both sides. I did enjoy my visit to Sandridge in Vero Beach. Sounds like I need to make my way to Victoria Hills sometime.

Mark Pritchett

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Ron Garl Courses
« Reply #4 on: October 02, 2015, 06:27:04 PM »
Stono Ferry near Charleston, South Carolina is a solid effort with good variety and thoughtful Par 3's. 


One of the better publics in the area. 

Stewart Abramson

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Ron Garl Courses
« Reply #5 on: October 02, 2015, 08:29:06 PM »
Ron Garl has designed more than 75 courses in Florida. I’ve only played four; Victoria Hills, EagleBrooke, Timacuan and Eagle Creek. Those four at the very least hold their own among the central Florida competition.  I know there is not a lot of love here for Florida courses so that may be faint praise, but I did enjoy all, with Victoria Hills and EagleBrooke being my favorites of the four.  Kalen’s description of there being some really good holes and some not is true of these as well.  Eagle Creek and Eaglebrooke , like so many Florida courses have lots of water to contend with.

]http:// Timacuan #12 par 5




]http:// Eagle Creek #14




]

Eaglebrooke #2 from front tee


]

Victoria Hills #6


https://www.flickr.com/photos/golfcoursepix/albums/72157631965991613 Timacuan photos
https://www.flickr.com/photos/golfcoursepix/albums/72157641718136725 Eagle Creek photos
https://www.flickr.com/photos/golfcoursepix/albums/72157642928297824 EagleBrooke photos
https://www.flickr.com/photos/golfcoursepix/albums/72157631961937357 Victoria Hills photos
« Last Edit: October 02, 2015, 09:03:03 PM by Stewart Abramson »

archie_struthers

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Ron Garl Courses
« Reply #6 on: October 02, 2015, 08:51:46 PM »
 :'( ::)


Ron Garl did a second redo of Greate Bay for Gene Gatti in the mid 80's , ostensibly to jazz it up and free up ground near the clubhouse for a practice range . The ladies tournament they hosted  pretty much mandated the need for a range . Garl did a decent job building the range but the holes he built were awful.


George Fazio , with nephew Tom in tow , had tinkered previously with the Willie Park , Jr.  design  and did some nice work. He left the Park Jr. greens  intact and put in some bunkers and cleaned up the tract. Garl , however built three new holes which bore no resemblance to the original design  (1923-25)  .


They included a new par three second hole, with a green surrounded by wood planks , yes wood planks!  Yikes . He shortened the second hole  that existed and stuck two where one had been by angling the new #2 and building a short par four third. He built two new holes on the back nine 11 & 12 which looked like they belonged on another course altogether. ??? ?


The first thing we did architecturally was to rip out the planks and the following summer replace the hole(2) with is now # 16 in our rotation. This allowed us to speed play when we restored the original hole as #2 which is a longish par four.

Maybe there are some extenuating circumstances that we aren't aware of but it seemed that there was no consideration given to meld it in to the existing style .

With a little luck , we will tear out the rest of the Garl work soon . It just seemed he mailed it in .
« Last Edit: October 04, 2015, 07:15:12 AM by archie_struthers »

Rees Milikin

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Ron Garl Courses
« Reply #7 on: October 02, 2015, 09:19:55 PM »
]

Victoria Hills #6

This is the approach shot on the par 5 15th at Victoria Hills.

Stewart Abramson

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Ron Garl Courses
« Reply #8 on: October 02, 2015, 10:33:49 PM »
]

This is the approach shot on the par 5 15th at Victoria Hills.


Were the nines at some point?

Jason Topp

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Ron Garl Courses
« Reply #9 on: October 03, 2015, 11:57:19 PM »
Fiddlesticks in Fort Myers is very good.

Tim Gavrich

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Ron Garl Courses
« Reply #10 on: October 05, 2015, 11:17:40 AM »
I play a lot of my golf these days at Sandridge GC in Vero Beach, which has two Garl courses - the Dunes and the Lakes. Both courses have their moments, but ultimately fall short of what could have been achieved. Each 18 has a hole with an island green. The main issue is that neither course takes enough advantage of the property's namesake feature. The Dunes course does the better job of it, with much of the back nine routed through the sand, while the Lakes has only three holes - 7,8,9 - in that environment. Then, the holes in the flat are largely pedestrian, with the well-named Lakes course overly hemmed in by water hazards.

All that said, it's a county facility that is very well-run and the courses are always in very good shape and relatively inexpensive to play.

Another Garl course I've played is Tradition GC in Litchfield Beach, SC, south of Myrtle Beach. I've always been underwhelmed with it, too, though it is always in very nice shape. Just lots of clumsy mounding, bunkering, and not very memorable greens. Two island greens, though!!!

The "best" of the Garls I've played is Brays Island, toward Beaufort, SC, though I wonder how much my enjoyment of it had to do with the extremely interesting setting it's in: the center of a very quiet, high-end community where equestrian, hunting and fishing seem to be the main concerns. The property is 3,000-plus acres, with only about 300 residences, so there's a ton of open space, including around the golf holes. The course itself has a bit of mounding and some odd features, but rolls along quite nicely and not overly unnaturally until the 13th, which is yet another Garl island green hole that totally disrupts the narrative of the course. You arrive in this massive open meadow, and there's this horribly unnatural holes marring the landscape. The last five holes play out much as the first dozen do, but the juju is gone. Still, Brays is well worth seeing/playing/experiencing, I'd say.
Senior Writer, GolfPass

Kalen Braley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Ron Garl Courses
« Reply #11 on: October 05, 2015, 11:55:42 AM »
Thanks all for the input.
 
Sounds like the mounding is a common theme going on here, which he uses plenty of us at this course in Utah as well. Due to driving range issues, they had to rebuild the 9th hole on this course and it too turned out horrific....it looks like it came straight out of Florida and does not fit in with the other holes.  No island holes thou!

Paul Jones

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Ron Garl Courses
« Reply #12 on: October 05, 2015, 03:04:37 PM »
His website list 250 courses - http://rongarl.com/course-list/

He designed Money Hill which was the Number 1 course in Louisiana for a few years before Squire Creek and Hurricane Katrina came along.

I like Money Hill, but just too many dogleg left holes.
Paul Jones
pauljones@live.com

Kerry Gray

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Ron Garl Courses
« Reply #13 on: October 05, 2015, 05:33:20 PM »
I've played at least two of his courses. Woodensticks in Toronto which is a tribute course. Several holes inspired by Augusta, Oakmont, Pine Valley, etc. it's interesting but disjointed. I think he has done a few of these style courses over the years. Oddly the few original holes on the course were quite good, aside from a long par 4 with a very unforgiving green.
Secondly Taboo Resort north of Toronto. Overall ok. In an area of player friendly designs, his is more difficult than most but I enjoyed it.  Some really good holes and some not so interesting.

Daniel Jones

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Ron Garl Courses
« Reply #14 on: October 05, 2015, 06:55:34 PM »
Thanks all for the input.
 
Sounds like the mounding is a common theme going on here, which he uses plenty of us at this course in Utah as well.


Another example of the mounding.. He built a par-4 on the East course (NLE) at Pine Oaks in my town that featured a green which was roughly 15 paces wide by 6 paces deep. The problem was, it was also 8 feet up on all four sides...in Florida. I wish I had a picture...

Kalen Braley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Ron Garl Courses
« Reply #15 on: October 06, 2015, 12:38:45 PM »
I'll be sure to take a few pics of some of the neater features on the course next weekend and post them up.
 
Kalen

Greg Tallman

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Ron Garl Courses
« Reply #16 on: October 07, 2015, 04:06:11 PM »
Garl's work is a mixed bag.

As Jason mentioned Fiddlesticks Long Mean is a pretty good track, particularly the back nine.

He had a pretty good site to work with just south of Charlotte in Fort Mill, SC and the resulting Regent Park GC is solid overall with some very good stuff sprinkled in here and there.

The vast majority of his work is typical Florida swamp courses with water and swamp everywhere. Not much anyone can do in that environment but work is work and someone had to design the courses. He just happened to be that guy, living in the area (Lakeland) helped as well.

 

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