Fully Grassed

[Tyler Kearns]

Thank you to Tom for being so insistent on crossing the road. Otherwise the world would never have that amazing finishing hole!

Or the other 9 that immediately precede it.

TK

[Bill Seitz]

Bill,

Because the Nicklaus course has bent greens, I believe the powers that be felt that members would not be excited about transitioning between bent & fescue greens, which run at noticeably different speeds.

TK

I would imagine that it would be easier for the maintenance crew to work on two courses built with similar specs as well, but what do I know?

[Tyler Kearns]

Bill,

Because the Nicklaus course has bent greens, I believe the powers that be felt that members would not be excited about transitioning between bent & fescue greens, which run at noticeably different speeds.

TK

I would imagine that it would be easier for the maintenance crew to work on two courses built with similar specs as well, but what do I know?

Bill,

Absolutely. I'm the green chairman at an older course which went through a renovation 25 years ago, leaving us with 8 USGA specification greens and 10 native soil push-up greens. Our superintendent's job would be much simpler with 18 greens built to the same specification.

TK

[John Kavanaugh]

Is the course all fescue like Ballyneal?    I love the way the greens and surrounds are so seamless at Ballyneal, great presentation and playing surface. 

Bill,

Because the Nicklaus course has bent greens, I believe the powers that be felt that members would not be excited about transitioning between bent & fescue greens, which run at noticeably different speeds.

TK

If Sand Hills just a few miles down the road has what may be the finest greens in the world, that are bent, why grow anything else?  The decision for bent grass greens was really that simple.

[Michael Wharton-Palmer]

Gentlemen...that meaning members, architect, and architect assistans, congratulations on getting the job done.
Many of us have enjoyed the updates, and those who have travelled to those parts before can only look forward to this one more reason to return.
Thank you all...

[Stephen Davis]

I agree with Brandon, that it was a priviledge to get to walk this course and hear from Tom and Chris about what has gone into making it what it is. The holes look amazing! I think we are witnessing the makings of another of the world's great courses.

[Bruce Wellmon]

I agree with Brandon, that it was a priviledge to get to walk this course and hear from Tom and Chris about what has gone into making it what it is. The holes look amazing! I think we are witnessing the makings of another of the world's great courses.

Amen, brother.

[Greg Tallman]

Is the course all fescue like Ballyneal?    I love the way the greens and surrounds are so seamless at Ballyneal, great presentation and playing surface. 

Bill,

Because the Nicklaus course has bent greens, I believe the powers that be felt that members would not be excited about transitioning between bent & fescue greens, which run at noticeably different speeds.

TK

If Sand Hills just a few miles down the road has what may be the finest greens in the world, that are bent, why grow anything else?  The decision for bent grass greens was really that simple.

One could easily argue that as a reason NOT to have bent.

[John Kavanaugh]

One could easily argue that as a reason NOT to have bent.

Really, whose success would you rather emulate, Ballyneal or Sand Hills.  It is also important to note that the weather in the heart of the Sand Hills is much more severe than you find where Ballyneal is located.  One of the things I love about Ballyneal is that it has a much longer golfing season.  It's like comparing Cabo to Coos Bay, almost.

[George Pazin]

Congrats to all. I do have mixed emotions - I keep wanting to volunteer to work on one of Tom's projects, but he somehow keeps building them without me - a wise choice for him, no doubt.

Grass choices would seem to be one of those "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" things. But I would defer to the experts.

[John Kavanaugh]

Not to mention it would have been flat out rude to the members of Ballyneal to build a Tom Doak all fescue course in the same market.  When I was growing up a lady stopped by our house and asked if we were interested in selling, when my Mom said no they went down the block and built a duplicate.  That was rude.

[Greg Tallman]

One could easily argue that as a reason NOT to have bent.

Really, whose success would you rather emulate, Ballyneal or Sand Hills.  It is also important to note that the weather in the heart of the Sand Hills is much more severe than you find where Ballyneal is located.  One of the things I love about Ballyneal is that it has a much longer golfing season.  It's like comparing Cabo to Coos Bay, almost.

Not really sure why the Ballyneal comparison is used and where the hell is Coos Bay?

[John Kavanaugh]

One could easily argue that as a reason NOT to have bent.

Really, whose success would you rather emulate, Ballyneal or Sand Hills.  It is also important to note that the weather in the heart of the Sand Hills is much more severe than you find where Ballyneal is located.  One of the things I love about Ballyneal is that it has a much longer golfing season.  It's like comparing Cabo to Coos Bay, almost.

Not really sure why the Ballyneal comparison is used and where the hell is Coos Bay?

The Ballyneal comparison was started earlier in the thread stating how great fescue greens would have been.  Coos Bay is just up the ocean from you near the Bandon Resort where fescue greens thrive.  I'm surprised Jimmy Buffett hasn't written a Cabo to Coos Bay ballad.

[John Kavanaugh]

Greg,

Maybe you don't know but 80% of the times I play Dismal River I drive past Ballyneal.  With both courses being designed by Tom Doak it is and will always be perfectly natural to compare and contrast the two courses. It should be a fun exercise that benefits both courses.

[Sam Morrow]

Is the course all fescue like Ballyneal?    I love the way the greens and surrounds are so seamless at Ballyneal, great presentation and playing surface. 

Bill,

Because the Nicklaus course has bent greens, I believe the powers that be felt that members would not be excited about transitioning between bent & fescue greens, which run at noticeably different speeds.

TK

If Sand Hills just a few miles down the road has what may be the finest greens in the world, that are bent, why grow anything else?  The decision for bent grass greens was really that simple.

One could easily argue that as a reason NOT to have bent.

I'm confused, that seems like a good reason to use bent. If it works down the road why not use it?

[George Pazin]

I'm confused, that seems like a good reason to use bent. If it works down the road why not use it?

I believe my friend Greg was merely positing it could be a manner of differentiating the courses.

I wouldn't say it's rude to go fescue, but I'd leave that to the pros (and they don't get pro-er than Don and Tom).

Now building the same house, that is indeed rude. Of course, I live in a neighborhood where there's 100 versions of the same three houses, so I guess I live in a rude neighborhood. Damn, I always thought it was kinda nice. Thanks for bursting my bubble.

[Sam Morrow]

I'm confused, that seems like a good reason to use bent. If it works down the road why not use it?

I believe my friend Greg was merely positing it could be a manner of differentiating the courses.

I wouldn't say it's rude to go fescue, but I'd leave that to the pros (and they don't get pro-er than Don and Tom).

Now building the same house, that is indeed rude. Of course, I live in a neighborhood where there's 100 versions of the same three houses, so I guess I live in a rude neighborhood. Damn, I always thought it was kinda nice. Thanks for bursting my bubble.

I agree, I think the pros know better than me, heck it's not like there are thousands of different grasses you could go with on the greens, I think it's kind of nitpicky. As we've seen on this site it doesn't matter who designed the course or what type of greens, or anything like that, the courses in the sand hills are going to get compared. I think that's good personally, things would be boring if we can't compare and contrast the courses.

As for your neighborhood I would move or if you really like the area and the schools put a giant cross in the yard and light it on fire. If you don't get shot night 1 everyone will move.

[Tom_Doak]

Congrats to all. I do have mixed emotions - I keep wanting to volunteer to work on one of Tom's projects, but he somehow keeps building them without me - a wise choice for him, no doubt.

Grass choices would seem to be one of those "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" things. But I would defer to the experts.

George:

If you'd posted this six weeks ago, you would now be very familiar with the business end of a hydromulcher!  We were scrambling for labor to help us finish once some of our crew had to get back to school.

[Greg Tallman]

JK - You are one interetsing dude. I think perhaps Sammy Haggar has written of his Coos Bay to Cabo travels.

[Chris Johnston]

The decision to use bentgrass for greens was easy.  It fit what we already have (hard and fast) and fescue seemingly struggles in very hot and dry climates.  At a place like Bandon, fescue is ideal.

[Greg Tallman]

The decision to use bentgrass for greens was easy.  It fit what we already have (hard and fast) and fescue seemingly struggles in very hot and dry climates.  At a place like Bandon, fescue is ideal.

Chris,
Logic and definitive statements have no place in what was shaping up to be a display of increidible intelllect courtesy of JK and yours truly! 

[Kris Shreiner]

Congrats to all involved. From pictures, the course looks ...BAD ASS! Guess I need to saddle up and get myself out there.

Cheers,
Kris

[John McCarthy]

Congrats to all. I do have mixed emotions - I keep wanting to volunteer to work on one of Tom's projects, but he somehow keeps building them without me - a wise choice for him, no doubt.

Grass choices would seem to be one of those "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" things. But I would defer to the experts.

George:

If you'd posted this six weeks ago, you would now be very familiar with the business end of a hydromulcher!  We were scrambling for labor to help us finish once some of our crew had to get back to school.

I envision a new business for you...GCA Fantasy Camp!  After the college kids go back to school then get a bunch of older GCA geeks to come out to courses under construction and do the remaining work.  And they pay you.  It works for Habitat for Humanity. 

I suppose you would have to buy a bunch of Ben Gay and some of us would have to be reminded that operating machinery after eight IPAs might not be the best idea, but nothing seems insurmountable. 

[Jon Wiggett]

The decision to use bentgrass for greens was easy.  It fit what we already have (hard and fast) and fescue seemingly struggles in very hot and dry climates.  At a place like Bandon, fescue is ideal.

Chris,

using bent seems a no brainer if the other course also has it and it is in good shape.

If you have found fescue to struggle then it would not be because of hot and dry climates which it copes with no problem. You must have had some other problem, soil type or the wrong maintenance program maybe?

Jon

[Tom_Doak]

The decision to use bentgrass for greens was easy.  It fit what we already have (hard and fast) and fescue seemingly struggles in very hot and dry climates.  At a place like Bandon, fescue is ideal.

Chris,

using bent seems a no brainer if the other course also has it and it is in good shape.

If you have found fescue to struggle then it would not be because of hot and dry climates which it copes with no problem. You must have had some other problem, soil type or the wrong maintenance program maybe?

Jon

Jon:

It's not the dry (droughty) conditions that bother the fescue, but I think the dry (low humidity) conditions put it under stress over the long haul.  It NEVER gets as arid in the UK (or in Oregon) as the typical day in the high plains.

The soils are perfect, light USGA sand for as far as you can see in every direction.