[Joe Bausch]

A member of the golf community in 1934 said that and much more about the Road Hole.  Was it true then?  Is it true now?  Has the hole become better over time with the greater distances golf balls travel?



I'll reveal who made these statements later.  Feel free to guess if you wish.

[Peter Pallotta]

Very cool, Joe - thanks. Sounds like a perfect description -- but of course, how we feel about it is the question. I'd like to know who the "correspondent" is even more than I do the "critic".

Peter

[Joe Bausch]

P2, the correspondent was George Trevor, long time writer for a prominent newspaper in the US.

[Jason Topp]

A great golf hole is a teaser

[Andy Stamm]

Didn't it play as a three-shotter in 1934? I'm certain that it did after that and now it plays as a 2 shotter. Did it change around before that as well?

I realize it doesn't matter in the slightest, but most of his complaints (green size and angle) would be mooted if it were a three shot hole, particularly if technology, etc. allowed the third shot to be relatively short and played from the right.

[BCrosby]

Joe -

Great find. Also a good example of people using 'equity' as a basis for judging the quality of a hole.

Trevor doesn't like the Road Hole because it doesn't give a golfer his "just deserts".

I am always surprised that people like Trevor, a long time golf journalist, someone who must have heard (probably in person) and read what MacK, Bob Jones, Low, Colt, Simpson, etc, had to say about the Road Hole - after all that - he still didn't get why they thought it was one of the greatest holes in the world. In fact, he sounds like Joshua Crane.

The persistence of moralizing about gca is striking. It goes way back and remains very much alive today. In that regard, I'd guess that most modern golfers agree with Trevor about the Road Hole.

Bob     

[Tom_Doak]

I am not sure who is being quoted, but I can answer his question -- Macdonald and Raynor built their own versions of the road hole as often as they could.

[Bill_McBride]

I am not sure who is being quoted, but I can answer his question -- Macdonald and Raynor built their own versions of the road hole as often as they could.

How deep is the Road hole green at Chicago?   I've never seen another green, let alone a golf hole, like the Road!

[BCrosby]

Joe -

Who was the "correspondent" and in what paper did your clipping appear?

Thanks.

[Joe Bausch]

Joe -

Who was the "correspondent" and in what paper did your clipping appear?

Thanks.

The correspondent was George Trevor, long time golf writer for the New York Sun.

[Joe Bausch]

Surprise, surprise.  At least it was to me.  The person criticizing the Road Hole and other parts of TOC was Tillinghast!  Here is the entire article:

[Ross Tuddenham]

I don’t understand why in the original article he complains about the green not being large enough for the approach range.  Surely this changes depending on the player, and for every size of green there will be a spot somewhere on the hole for every player to comfortably approach the green from.  If he doesn’t think he can hold the green from 200yards then lay up.  It is also a little strange to criticise the green for not being on the same scale as the others (is this even the case, as I always think the 17th green feels pretty big if you finish in a different area from the pin?).  What’s wrong with mixing up the green sizes to add a bit of variety? 

He also contradicts himself by first complaining about the large greens –compared to the Yankee postage stamps - and open space, and then complains about the smaller green and tighter nature of the hole on 17.  It all sounds a little bitter which makes you wonder if some of his work had been criticised around the time for not showing enough of the principles of the TOC.

As for saying it is a lottery, well surely any hole is a lottery if you don’t bother to think about how you play it?

And yes it is a teaser, and a very good true golf hole for that very reason.

[Bill_McBride]

Tillie refers to the Road Hole as a 467 yard two-shotter.    Wasn't it a par 5 then on the card?   If so then the green is admirably designed for a par 5.  The second can be played out to the right for a pitch shot down the long axis of the narrow green.

I further note in the accompanying article that Johnny Goodman shot a "sub-par 72."   That leads me to believe that #17 was still a par 5, as TOC is currently a par 72 with #17 a par four. 

[Patrick_Mucci]

Bill,

Yes, the Road hole was originally a par 5.

That green, and it's replicas, is one of the all time great greens in golf

[Bill_McBride]

Bill,

Yes, the Road hole was originally a par 5.

That green, and it's replicas, is one of the all time great greens in golf

How many of its replicas are shaped and protected like the original?

Can you list and compare from your experience?

NGLA's is as close as I've seen, but I think the green is deeper by at least half.  Could be wrong, that was 36 holes one day several years ago.

[Dan Kelly]

A great golf hole is a teaser

Great line, Jason.

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