What is not perfect about the 18th at Pebble Beach?

[Joe_Tucholski]

Well, 20 responses and nobody mentioned that it plays directly into the setting sun.  That's less than perfect for an 18th hole!

It's a closing hole playing directly into the setting sun (this is a plus for the tv tournament coverage though). 

There are often hordes of people encroaching on the fairway up by the green to take pictures. I find that distracting and annoying. If they made the hole less attractive, perhaps by adding mounding down the left so there wasn't an ocean view, I think it would greatly reduce the riff raff wandering onto the course.

Dan, I have to assume you were joking with your comment but kind of related 18 ends and it's a bit awkward getting back to the car, either taking the shuttle back or walking through the commercial area.  It's only 250 or so yards from the first tee but it feels much further away.

[Nigel Islam]

I'll take the 18th at Pebble any day. As great a closing hole as I have played for its tradition, scenery, and challenges.

[Bob_Huntley]

A long time ago I stood the 18th green and promised myself that some day I would live here, luckily I did.

Tom, when the sun shines you are correct, however in June, July and August bring your your warmest sweaters.

Bob

[Pat Burke]

I don't think any hole with housing on it would fit my definition of perfect.

There are houses there!?!?!
Never saw them!

[Jason Thurman]

There are often hordes of people encroaching on the fairway up by the green to take pictures. I find that distracting and annoying. If they made the hole less attractive, perhaps by adding mounding down the left so there wasn't an ocean view, I think it would greatly reduce the riff raff wandering onto the course.

Dan, I have to assume you were joking with your comment but kind of related 18 ends and it's a bit awkward getting back to the car, either taking the shuttle back or walking through the commercial area.  It's only 250 or so yards from the first tee but it feels much further away.

You can always park directly behind the green on the other side of the lodge. That's what I did. As short as any walk I've ever had to the car.

[Bart Bradley]

A long time ago I stood the 18th green and promised myself that some day I would live here, luckily I did.

Tom, when the sun shines you are correct, however in June, July and August bring your your warmest sweaters.

Bob

Bob:

Life is good, huh? 

It has to be such a blessing to look at that coastline more than a few days in a lifetime.

Bart

[Bob_Huntley]

A long time ago I stood the 18th green and promised myself that some day I would live here, luckily I did.

Tom, when the sun shines you are correct, however in June, July and August bring your your warmest sweaters.

Bob

Bob:

Life is good, huh? 


Bart,

You are so right. Sometimes after a game I would take the long way home by driving alongside the ocean, past Cypress and over to the Polo
Field and then out the Carmel Gate. I was always in awe of the beauty of it all. 

Bob

It has to be such a blessing to look at that coastline more than a few days in a lifetime.

Bart

[Matthew Petersen]

It's not perfect, but I think it gets nit picked a little bit too much here.

It is very flat, more so than I expected and that kind of stands out on both 17&18 because overall the rest of the course has more movement than most would probably expect just from watching from home.

The OB right didn't bother me. Count me among those who didn't notice it. And I was playing with a couple guys who were seriously struggling, which always kind of puts you on the lookout for how they might screw up the hole. That's a really big miss off a tee ball. Do houses encroach more for the second shot?

I know in the CG, Doak's issue was that it plays as a bit of a bland 3-shot hole. To that extent, this is one of those holes technology helps. It's not easy to get home in two, and that's a tiny green to try to go for ... but it could be done. Then again, play it into the breeze (as I did this summer) and it's an absolute beast.

[Kalen Braley]

Steves pic: (a bit more manageable to look at)

[Emile Bonfiglio]

Steves pic: (a bit more manageable to look at)

Kalen, thank for reposting that, I don't think most people saw how crazy a pic that actually is!

[ChipOat]

John,

The Stupid Trees off the tee and the equally Stupid Tree by the green are, in Pat Mucci's words, "demerits".  To me, they are HUGE demerits.

Bunkers in the sky - I hate them.

The golf architecture should be ON THE GROUND.

[David Davis]

Steve, awesome pick, look like you just missed your birdie ;-)

[David Davis]

That went too fast. Funny enough I played it last year and I can't really remember the houses either. The wind was blowing very hard left to right and I was fading the ball so it was a nasty tee shot from the US Open tees which they had set  back at maximum length as according to the caddies no-one was stupid enough to be playing them in that wind. Enter David...but not by choice to be fair, it was play the senior tees all the way up front or play the back tees with the hot-shot .5 hcper from Montreal. Who proceeded to hit his first two balls right OB. I think the hole is pretty damn special, architecturally perfect, no but not many are. As for the sun, I always wear glasses to protect my eyes from the wind and sun, yes it was setting but that didn't seem to bother me. Tee shot is great, second shot is fairly routine, even from behind/around the trees in the rough were I ended up. Approach was also pretty good. I'd have to say one of my favorite holes on the course as well and certainly a lot of fun.

[Carl Nichols]

Are there many strategic decisions to make? 

[Jason Thurman]

Carl, your question makes me wonder how the vote for 18's quality would split between players who can potentially reach in 2 and players who can't. It's certainly more interesting strategically if a good drive can put you in position to potentially reach.

[William_G]

It used to be a very difficult hole when golf balls were more difficult to hit straight, now the intimidation is less severe as over the last 15 years the ball has been dialed in for straightness.

The erosion and fake rock on the tee and along the fairway and green are its long term weaknesses.

Where else do you get the 18th on the ocean? That's it's biggest positive attribute, how could you have routed Pebble differently?

[Mike Hendren]

Both the OB and housing right are not really an issue for 99% of the 1% who get to pay here.

Originally a par 4, perhaps it qualifies as the greatest hole ever changed, in that manner?

I must be the 1% of the 1%.  I leaked my drive right into the fairway bunker.  Hit what I thought was a very good 4-iron that leaked a little right,  bounced off the cart path and landed OB.    Easy 8.  Mucci's initial comment resonated. 

I might be the only golf course architecture enthusiast in the world that was overwhelmed by the 17th and underwhelmed by the 18th.  Both are great holes, however.

Mike 

[SteveOgulukian]

Both the OB and housing right are not really an issue for 99% of the 1% who get to pay here.

Originally a par 4, perhaps it qualifies as the greatest hole ever changed, in that manner?

I must be the 1% of the 1%.  I leaked my drive right into the fairway bunker.  Hit what I thought was a very good 4-iron that leaked a little right,  bounced off the cart path and landed OB.    Easy 8.  Mucci's initial comment resonated. 

I might be the only golf course architecture enthusiast in the world that was overwhelmed by the 17th and underwhelmed by the 18th.  Both are great holes, however.

Mike 

Michael,

Out of curiosity, what overwhelmed you about the 17th hole?  When I played it, the pin was in the front right so I didn't get to experience how unplayable it may be with a back left pin location. 

[SteveOgulukian]

Both the OB and housing right are not really an issue for 99% of the 1% who get to pay here.

Originally a par 4, perhaps it qualifies as the greatest hole ever changed, in that manner?

I must be the 1% of the 1%.  I leaked my drive right into the fairway bunker.  Hit what I thought was a very good 4-iron that leaked a little right,  bounced off the cart path and landed OB.    Easy 8.  Mucci's initial comment resonated. 

I might be the only golf course architecture enthusiast in the world that was overwhelmed by the 17th and underwhelmed by the 18th.  Both are great holes, however.

Mike 

[William_G]

Both the OB and housing right are not really an issue for 99% of the 1% who get to pay here.

Originally a par 4, perhaps it qualifies as the greatest hole ever changed, in that manner?

I must be the 1% of the 1%.  I leaked my drive right into the fairway bunker.  Hit what I thought was a very good 4-iron that leaked a little right,  bounced off the cart path and landed OB.    Easy 8.  Mucci's initial comment resonated. 

I might be the only golf course architecture enthusiast in the world that was overwhelmed by the 17th and underwhelmed by the 18th.  Both are great holes, however.

Mike 

with the back tee across the road at 17 you get no more difficult par 3 I know of except 16 at CP...that 1 iron Jack hit there was incredible

[Patrick_Mucci]

Are there many strategic decisions to make? 

Carl,

Watching on TV all those years before I played it, I thought it would play easy.

I thought that I would cut the corner of the ocean and that any ocean winds would push the ball toward the fairway.

But, it hasn't played that way.

On the tee you have to decide driver or 3-wood and if you decide driver, where to try to hit it.
And if you decide 3-wood, it will impact your third shot.

Depending where you hit your drive, you have to decide, 3-wood or iron, and you have to decide on where you want to aim, which can affect your third shot.

So yes, there are plenty of strategic decisions

[Carl Nichols]

Are there many strategic decisions to make? 

Carl,

Watching on TV all those years before I played it, I thought it would play easy.

I thought that I would cut the corner of the ocean and that any ocean winds would push the ball toward the fairway.

But, it hasn't played that way.

On the tee you have to decide driver or 3-wood and if you decide driver, where to try to hit it.
And if you decide 3-wood, it will impact your third shot.

Depending where you hit your drive, you have to decide, 3-wood or iron, and you have to decide on where you want to aim, which can affect your third shot.

So yes, there are plenty of strategic decisions

Pat:
Those seem like pretty standard decisions, i.e., ones that you would make on most above-average par 5's.  Perhaps a better question woudl have been:  is the 18th as strategic as other world-class  holes? 

[SteveOgulukian]

You could argue that the par 5 18th at Yale is more strategic than the 18th at Pebble.  However, does that make it a better hole?

[Carl Nichols]

You could argue that the par 5 18th at Yale is more strategic than the 18th at Pebble.  However, does that make it a better hole?

Not necessarily, at least for me.  But John's question was "what is not perfect about the 18th at Pebble Beach," and one answer might be that it's not really that strategic.

[Kalen Braley]

I'm having a hard time understanding how the 18th at Pebble is not very strategic.

- With a lateral hazard to the left. (Which just happens to be one of the finest in all of golf, the ocean with a world class view)
- OB right, (pick ur poison, miss left you get a drop, miss right drop + distance)
- Trees in the fairway LZ
- Dog leg left with bite off as much as you can chew tee ball and 2nd shot.
- Prevailing wind to factor in when going for it in two or not.

What hole(s) is one comparing to when declaring it not very strategic.  I would call 18 very strategic compared to 90% of the holes I've every played.