Silloth - the best and the worst ?

[Scott Warren]

Sean... buddy... maaaaate...

Seriously? Quoting scorecard distances to make a point? That's not your go at all. That's lunacy!

The 1st is a mid iron from a heaving sea of a fairway to a dell green that falls away further in areas.

The 2nd is driveable with a grade level green that has more movement than you initially realise and that hillside on the right punishing a weak, fanned attempt to hit the green, or it's a hybrid and wedge with the angle bery important due to the short grass features in front of the green.

3 has you hitting a mid to shot iron to a green benches above your head and sliding off the hill.

4 is an approach shot like no oner on the course to a green that while grade level on the front drops savagely at the sides. A good drive will earn a short iron in.

Notwithstanding the fact that I don't accept that the clubs into those greens are necessarily the same, though maybe similar), the SHOTS you're playing and the land you're playing them from and to differs enormously.

As Mark said, your comments re: Silloth do not correlate at all with the Sean Arble we know and love and are just flat out wrong, IMO.

Let's start with the distances of the front nine holes

#-Blue-White-Yellow
1--380---380---371
2--315---315---311
3--371---352---352
4--372---372---352
5--559---523---499
6--201---182---172
7--415---398---363
8--371---371---348
9--142---131---121

So from the blue tees, the difference between longest and shortest front nine par four is 100 yards. From the whites, 83 yards, with massive differences in the land encountered and shots required on the likes of 1, 3, 4 and 8, which have similar scorecard lengths.

[Dónal Ó Ceallaigh]

I think there a lot of variety on the first nine at Silloth. The 1st is straight to a sunken green. The corner can be cut on the 2nd, so its yardage varies depending on the drive. Same goes for the 3rd, but with an elevated green. Even though the 4th is only 20 yards shorter than the 1st, the 4th played as a 280 yard hole, whereas the 1st was more like 450 yarder.

On the Friday, I hit the following clubs on the first nine, with a stiff breeze blowing:

1 - D, 3i
2 - D, 7i
3 - D, would have been about about a 6i if I was on the fairway
4 - 3i layup, 8i
5 - D, 3W, punch 9i
6 - 3i
7 - D, 3i
8 - D, 5i
9 - 5i

I'd say we got a good mix of conditions over the 5 rounds we played.

[Sean_A]

Scott

I reported facts and drew conclusions based on my experience.  Every par 4 on the front nine played as wedge to 8 iron approach in what could be deemed as a gentle to moderate wind a bit off the left on the first hole.  See below for a fair representation of the wind I encountered. Its difficult for me to understand how you can say I am wrong unless you think I am lying. 


I wrote before that I didn't think the elevations changes materially altered hole distances on the day I played.  That could be because it was a bit of a cross wind for many holes.  I found the course to be tough and unnecessarily clad in rough if indeed the club can cut it back.  Even so, I would happily return.

Ciao

[Scott Warren]

Sean,

Talk to us about the shots you faced into the greens on those front nine par fours. Describe the shot you needed to hit and what the land was like.

And look at the yardages above and picture the land. If all your front nine par four approaches were between an 8i and a wedge, there was something extremely funky about the placement of the forward tees you were playing from.

[Sean_A]

#1 Straight forward full 8 iron.  I know the tees weren't forward as they were right in front of the lounge on the back platform.

#2 9 iron slightly short of green to kick up

#3 3/4 wedge - tough uphill shot with a cross wind - reminds me a lot of Deal's 6th approach

#4  knockdown 8 iron - tough shot to a narrow target

#7 9 iron just over brow of hill - too much club

#8 full 8 iron

By far the trickiest shots were #s 3, 4 and 7. 

Ciao   

[Scott Warren]

From the set of tees you played, 1 and 2 are 60 yards different in length playing the same direction, yet you hit one club different to the green? Then proceeded to hit a club and a half less on 3 than on 2? These things make no sense to me unless you were hitting strange clubs from the tee.

And re: difference in yardage, the numbers don't lie. From the members' tees it is far greater than you said, and from the back tees even more again.

[Michael Whitaker]

Guys, I don't hit the ball as far as Sean or Scott (although, I can be a bit straighter on occasion  ) and I found Silloth all I wanted to chew from the the yellow tees. I can see where the white tees would be handy if the wind were from the opposite direction we experienced, but I felt more than adequately challenged from where we played.

As for favorite hole... this is difficult because I found most all the holes entertaining... but, if I had to choose just one it would be #14 for the pure fun of it. Having the opportunity to make anything from a three to a blob on this par 5 hole with all the quirk along the way was great fun for me.

Least favorite hole... would have to be #15.  Too similar to 11.

[Mark Pearce]

Sean,

Those are some odd clubs.  A 3/4 wedge to 3 but yet an 8I to 4?  That, to me, suggests a North Easterly wind.  Only Ben Stephens would have been hitting anything like a bit wedge to 3 on any of the days we played and he's humoungously long (he drove it in the greenside bunker on 8, for instance).  But then you hit 8I on 8?  With a wind that makes 3 a 3/4 wedge, 8 has to be a half wedge, surely?  In fact, I really, really struggle to understand how for anyone the approach to 8 can be a club more than the approach to 7 in any wind at all, unless you badly mishit the drive on 8.  I hear what you are saying and implicitly trust your judgment but there's just something really odd about your experience.

[Niall C]

Sean,

Apologies, I seem to have put you in the dock which I didn't mean to do. Judging from your photo of the 3rd green it looks as though you had a wind blowing directly behind with the drive which would have helped at that hole and made all the other par 4's on the front nine relatively neutral, wind wise. I would suggest that while not unknown, thats probably not a common wind.

For the record, I played out my boots on Friday, being 3 over at the turn and I hit the following;

1 - D, 2 W (to top of the hill), chip and putt
2 - D, 7I
3 - D, easy Rescue
4 - 5W, easy 9I
5 - D, 2W, 5W (short) NB - played from medal tee
6 - 5W (short)
7 - D, 2W (short, front edge)
8 - D, 5W
9 - 5I (failed to make green)

I don't know that I've hit my woods any better than I did on the front nine on the Friday. Fridays wind probably was stronger than normal (whatever that is) but hardly unknown at Silloth. If you want to analyse the front nine wind wise, the first four holes that are all par 4's, play in 3 different directions, they are then followed by a par 5, which is followed by a par 3 into a different wind direction, followed by two par 4's which play different directions again, and finally the short par 3 which is another different direction. In my book thats plenty of achallenge and variety.

Niall

[Lynn_Shackelford]

Sean
If you want to judge Silloth as very good and not great, I think you should pick on the back 9.  Redundancy at the par 3's and 11 and 15.

Maybe some of the front 9 holes have some similar second shot distances, but they have blind shots, uphill shots, a green site at 4 is like nothing else in golf and different looking tee shots.

You should have been with us on Thursday.  On #1 I hit driver, driver seven iron.

I agree there should be more room for error around the greens, and maybe one too many blind shots.

[Sean_A]

Mark

If I nutted every drive I would be a 5 capper.  My approaches were what they were - though I may have hit a knockdown 8 on #8. 

Niall

That is quite alright.  The wind may not have been normal. 

Lynn

I agree, the front nine is more compelling than the back, but in my experience the yardage differential on the back was more appealing. That said, there seemed to be less room for error on the front as well.  I agree the two par 3s on the back were too similar to be called a good pair.  Unlike the rest of you lot, I wasn't enamoured with the last two par 5s (or indeed the back nine as a group).  They struck me as blaster holes. 

I am glad I didn't play in the wind you mentioned as that is not enjoyable for me.  Anything near 30mph requires a special sort of course to accommodate the wind.  Unfortunately, most links aren't up to the job when the wind is near 20 let alone 30.  I recall Buda VIII at Pennard there was some wind about - maybe 22ish on the Sunday and folks were beaten down - and that was with a practically wide open course - I don't want to think about it on a hairy course like Silloth.

Ciao 

[Eric Smith]

Just for fun I wonder if those who played in the BUDA would care to post their individual scores and greensomes / foursomes scores on the par 5 13th? I don't know that I've played a more deserving #1 HCP hole than this one.

Here are my scores at the 13th:

Rd 1  (greensomes)    8
Rd 2                         8
Rd 3  (foursomes)      9
Rd 4                       10

Yes I was the high handicapper in the event, but I don't recall seeing a par or bogey made in any of my groups, but I could be mistaken.

[Niall C]

Eric

I had a 6 on the Friday, and Gary See who was my opponent had a 5. As you know Gary is a pro and I was playing very well for me. From memory Friday might have been the only time I finished the hole during BUDA.

Niall

[Sean_A]

I wasn't at Buda, but I had a tough fought 5 when there.  Drive, hybrid just over the top, 6 iron, nasty 2 putt.  The wind was as shown below. 


Ciao

[Mark Pearce]

I won with a 7 on the Thursday afternoon playing 4bbb, I know that.  I think I won it in my singles match with an 8.

[Dónal Ó Ceallaigh]

Just for fun I wonder if those who played in the BUDA would care to post their individual scores and greensomes / foursomes scores on the par 5 13th? I don't know that I've played a more deserving #1 HCP hole than this one.

Here are my scores at the 13th:

Rd 1  (greensomes)    8
Rd 2                         8
Rd 3  (foursomes)      9
Rd 4                       10

Yes I was the high handicapper in the event, but I don't recall seeing a par or bogey made in any of my groups, but I could be mistaken.

R1: >6 (Can't remember: Greensomes with John)
R2: 6 (4BBB with Chris)
R3: >6 (Can't remember: foursomes with Rich)
R4: 8 (I think I halved hole with Ben; both of us lost balls)
R5: 5 (Singles v James; cracking drive, stinger of a 3W and punched 9i)

My fourth round attempt at the hole was the most bizarre lost ball ever. I tried to lay up with a 4 iron but ended up hitting it into the heather between the lower and upper fairway. For my third shot, I hit a 5 iron and the ball just disappeared. I looked up and asked Ben and Bryan if they had seen it; they didn't see it come off the clubface. I think I hit it into the ground about a foot in front of where it lay, and buried it in the bank.

[Michael Whitaker]

Mr. Shackelford and I had a beautifully executed six in our foresomes match to win the hole! 

I lost the hole in my singles match to a 9!!! 

[Bryan Izatt]

As best as I recall, we would have a straightforward par in the greensomes on benign Wednesday to win; and a 6 for a win in the afternoon.  I think there was a 7 that was a winner and another win over a pick up.  In the singles I think it was a win with a 7.  I thought it was a really nice match play hole.